Our immortals seem to be in the mood to make some changes and additions to a mud, so i decided to make some more random suggestions on spells and skills.
Low level mage spells Chill Touch, Burning Hands and Shocking Grasp. All this attacks are made by performing a touch, so it would be nice if at higher levels there would be a spell that will add them as a proc to unarmed attacks made by caster. It would be useful when fighting mobs that require proc weapon to be defeated or even more usefull if a caster have monk in classo. This could be made by creating a magical weapon like spiritual hammer, that allow usage of monks skills like flurry and strike. Adding Vampiric Touch as a proc would probably be an overpower tho.
Raise Dead. There are no abilities except Raise Dead that can be used by only one class. You was talking about increasing gropability of Ne and Dr class, then give one of them an analog of this spell! If you give it to Necro, you can make it a flawed version or Raise Dead, afflicting raised player with weaken or disease or something. (lepricosy disease looks bad
enough imho) If you give it to Druid (some kind of Regrowth) you can make it work like death pact, or just increase players hp, making it harder to raise a player with -623 hp then with -11 hp.
I’d like to see clerics (primes especially) be more useful. In particular, one of there prime abilities (blindness) is actually more useful as the mage spell acid blast. Clerics get blindness at lower levels, but can only cast it outside of battle. Also, many mobs that are noblind can be acid blinded. How about an improved blindness spell at higher levels that clerics could use to fight the extended battles they’re built for? Even better, a version that could be cast while the mob is STILL blind to reset the timer?
As for the first spell… hm… why not to give a monk burning
hands… but let them burn the monk too… and the spell will be
quite balanced. Or may be Ma/Mo makes not enough dam/round? Count
handdam, winds with spellbonus… isn’t it a dam machine?,
As for second suggestion, it is out of concepts of necro/driids
classes. Necromancers can raise dead ones by turning them into
undeads. I doubt any1 would like to be a zomby after raise :)
Or may be you want to be a plant after raise? Turn a dead person
into plant, cast ‘regrowth’, wait till this ‘plant’ will be able
to move again (2-5 ticks, depends on wounds)…
Or may be you want to make a raise possible for classo with Ne and
Dr but w/o cleric? So necro can turn dead person into helpless,
undead creature (that will crumble in 2-3 ticks) and druid will be
able to put a breath of life into that soulless body.
That was :)
And one more comment, Alex, collect spellbonus mode and you’ll see the real power of yours.
- Raise Dead. There are no abilities except Raise Dead that can be used by only one class. You was talking about increasing gropability of Ne and Dr class, then give one of them an analog of this spell! If you give it to Necro, you can make it a flawed version or Raise Dead, afflicting raised player with weaken or disease or something. (lepricosy disease looks bad
enough imho) If you give it to Druid (some kind of Regrowth) you can make it work like death pact, or just increase players hp, making it harder to raise a player with -623 hp then with -11 hp.[/quote:1iqdyeyl]
uhm.. firewind? clerics raise, mages blast, that is what they do. give those abilities to other classes, and why have them in the first place? should alway be unique spells for classes so you have to make choices when you create a classo, otherwise why have a multi-class mud?
should alway be unique spells for classes so you have to make choices when you create a classo, otherwise why have a multi-class mud?[/quote:a1rd7y7y]
I agree with Alberich, but the original reason Sloth allowed you to play all four classes was because it was simple and players didn’t have to make these kinds of choices. They just had to decide how long they didn’t want to have them. Sloth has lost some of it’s ‘Slothness’…
Ppl, I repeat, Raise Dead is the only unique spell ingame. Every other ability is available in some form to at least two classes. Necros and Bards can blast, Druids can heal, Bards can steal end etc. And about enother my suggestion, it’s in some way an analog of enchant weapon but for unarmed fighters. No one says that you must make 100% rate proc.
Unique/Semi-unique abilities:
Druids - Shapeshift
Necro - Death Pact, Darksight, Spectral Shield, Wraithform
Bards - Almost everything
Mages - Magic Rope, Reflection, Extreme blasting that works longer than 1 tick a day.
Thief - Backstab, Poisons
Warrior - Critical Hits, Frenzy, Parry
Monk - Wraithtouch, Deathgrip (kinda like backstab, oh well), Presage
Cleric - Raise Dead
What are you talking about?
12345, I will be patient and will just answer all your examples.
Shapeshift - there is no form that allows you to have abilities that at least one class do not have.
Darksight - Infravision
Spectral Shield - Spellshield
Magic Rope - Canopied Arbour
Parry - Dodge
Crit Hit, Frenzy,Extreme Blasting will not allow you to do something others cannot, you will just do something better.
Practically all bard songs have analogs, except gods of war and prime song dance of seven luck gods. (well let’s add wealth or glory here too)
Reflection… well from one side it’s equivalent to spellshield, because some mobs will not blast you when you are using it, from another it’s similar to counterattack but for magic.
Presage is much like one bard song, which name i forgot.
Poisons - Focus.
Wraithform… well, no analogs for wraithform, i agree.
Btw you can say that Death Pact is analog of Raise Dead, but it only allows you to raise self, and is not improving groupability of necro imho. Well, anyway it exists, so maybe there is really no need to add something else.
I apologize, I wasn’t trying to sounds offensive. However, I think many of the analogs you mentioned have some key differences. For instance, Darksight allows you to see items in the dark, instead of having to hold a light to loot. Nice ability. If a +darksight light ever comes out in the game it will near the top of my list of items to acquire and I may go so far as to request it as an Avatar item.
Some of the druid forms, such as asp, have poison. Poison is an incredibly nice ability. As a tank, I’ve had an asp follower who managed to get a poison and then died. His poison attack still helped me kill the mob even after he was dead. I don’t believe there is an analog for this. Ferret also has some nice abilities when it comes to manuvering through small passages and mobs that hate you.
Though I will admit Focus could be considered an analog to Poison, as well some of your other examples are valid.
This was fun :)
Raise dead should stay cleric only. The same day Jake talked about bards being the least-picked class he also said that clerics are the most-picked class. (Just not prime.) Cleric is a very useful class, just not very powerful when soloing.
How about something new for the warrior? I like the idea of weapon masteries. In addition, how about giving warrior a natural ability to resist magic (improved saving throws)? :twisted:
I agree with sapient on the weapon masteries. That could be used by a variety of classes. Certain classes rely on bladed weapons, while others non-bladed. You could even included a specialization for pole arms.
One spell that came to mind was an improved invisibility. I have seen it elsewhere for higher level players. Makes sense that a low level player casting invis upon his or her self would still be seen by bigger, more skilled mobs that would a higher level caster.
I have also lobbied for an additional guild that would allow additional mastery of spells beyond 95%. In exchange for exp and coin, one could increase their spell knowledge to a supreme level or even to the point of arcane knowledge. With that knowledge, loosing concentration would not occur as often and having such superior knowledge, even the power of a spell could be increased slightly.
example would be the restore spell. Base bones, does 180 point of healing. For each percent point increase in knowledge, you could receive a +5 bonus. At 99% knowledge being that of arcane knowledge, you would receive +20 overall, making your restore spell worth 200 points.
There would have to be some kind of system put in place as to when you could increase knowledge of spells. Could be when ever you max out that class then you are allowed. As per the above example, when you reach level 40 cleric, you could begin increasing you cleric spells. We could do it as 2x40 or 3x40. Or my last thought, would be to allow additional learning at a set level above the level you learned the spell at (ie level 5 spells could be increased when you reach level 10, 30th level spell could be increased at 35). Those spells aquired above 35 could be increase once reaching avatar 1 or 3x40 etc
I have also lobbied for an additional guild that would allow additional mastery of spells beyond 95%. In exchange for exp and coin, one could increase their spell knowledge to a supreme level or even to the point of arcane knowledge. With that knowledge, loosing concentration would not occur as often and having such superior knowledge, even the power of a spell could be increased slightly.
example would be the restore spell. Base bones, does 180 point of healing. For each percent point increase in knowledge, you could receive a +5 bonus. At 99% knowledge being that of arcane knowledge, you would receive +20 overall, making your restore spell worth 200 points.
There would have to be some kind of system put in place as to when you could increase knowledge of spells. Could be when ever you max out that class then you are allowed. As per the above example, when you reach level 40 cleric, you could begin increasing you cleric spells. We could do it as 2x40 or 3x40. Or my last thought, would be to allow additional learning at a set level above the level you learned the spell at (ie level 5 spells could be increased when you reach level 10, 30th level spell could be increased at 35). Those spells aquired above 35 could be increase once reaching avatar 1 or 3x40 etc[/quote:2tedra34]
I think you forgot to suggest ‘summon grenade’ spell! And ‘mass grenade summon’ for avatars…
I wish folks weren’t so crafty, anonymity for weaks!
aa
I think you forgot to suggest ‘summon grenade’ spell! And ‘mass grenade summon’ for avatars…[/quote:1ik3rj8v]
Heh, wasn’t my idea, but it does have some merit. Losing conc on a level 5 spell is always annoying. It would be nice if lower level spells stepped up to 99% after a certain requirement. Whether that is +20 levels in the class, or reaching 40 in the class, or even reaching 40 in the next class. As far as bonuses, between spellbonus/healbonus and masterfuls, bonuses are pretty much covered. If you really wanted a bonus, perhaps an increased chance of a masterful would suffice.
Don’t think I added anything too overpower in that :)
I don’t think a +20 bonus on heal is gernade power. The bonus attributed to the spell you choose to increase knowledge in would have to be proportional to the cost in exp and gold required for such schooling. Blasting spells should not be increased to do insane amounts of extra damage but an acceptable increase. I am not sure how much more potent a masterful cast really is on any spell, but I don’t think you knowledge of the spell increases the amount of masterful casts. I have cast masterful on spells only known at 50%. It would give people yet another thing to spend time earning xp and coins for, besides just leveling.
Even those who choose to keep a valk character under level 21 could participate. This is not very different from max avatar ability to run xp and coin for improved stats. The key here also, is to make xp and coin costs increase with you level. If you choose to do this early in a characters levels, is should be cheaper as xp and coin are harder to run and higher at higher levels because bigger xp and coin is doable.
If they do anything to allow a character to specialize spells / abilities past 95%, I hope they add some drastic limits. Maybe each character should only have 1 spell that they can specialize in to that extent.
How come I’ve never seen a masterful heal/gheal/restore? Cures even?
There are 2 skills to improve concentration rates - and they’re both avatar skills. Do we really think they’ll make them 1x40 skills? I’m not saying it’s impossible, since they did it before with ID for bards, but I’d consider it highly unlikely.
firewind and heals do not have masterful versions that I have ever noticed.
rightly so I think. People cry about..oh I need more power..I’m gimped..
oh my pussy hurts me real bad..
quit puling..characters are so overpowered now it’s not funny.
There are 2 skills to improve concentration rates - and they’re both avatar skills. Do we really think they’ll make them 1x40 skills?[/quote:qt10rr30]
Maybe. Mostly because we’re not exactly talking the same thing. A skill to improve conc rates would presumably work for every spell in the game, up to and including level 30+ spells like restoration, firewind, etc. These are many of the more power-based spells. A level 40 mage isn’t going to cast colour spray instead of firewind just because he has an extra 4% chance of not losing conc.
There are many low level spells that are commonly used that just seem silly to lose conc on. Create food/create water come to mind. Most are level 10 and below. There are some spells in this range that are commonly used, such as blindness, however, it’s not like the player hasn’t had sufficent practice in casting blindness by the time they get to level 40.
It would be reasonable for spells up to a certain level gain a percentage boost once you meet some requirement. I don’t think it’s overpowered to have low level spells with 99% and high level spells with 95%. There would still be utility in the avatar versions to boost things like restoration and firewind.
quit puling..characters are so overpowered now it’s not funny.[/quote:1qdbi5im]
Quite right Mullah. I think bard is the closest to what it used to be like.
There was a time on Sloth when a 2x40 25+ wa/cl/ma could barely kill a 1mil mob, and when they did, it was something to brag about. Your power was based on when you could solo that 1mil mob.
Now-a-days, a 1mil solo is not that hard. I see some 1x40’s getting 1mil kills like candy on Halloween.
Some people have some nice ideas to enhance gameplay, however, some people seem to be saying: “My classo cant do this or that, I should be able to do it.” Choose a classo that can then :)
Of the new classes, Bard is the closest to the old school classes (the way it used to be). There is more variety, and versilility now than there has ever been, and people solo things that just a little over a year ago would never have been possible (at equivalent levels). Some things need to be altered and tweaked, yes, but from an overall perspective… consider yourself lucky, I would say, because it wasnt too long ago that thief prime was strangled within an inch of its life because it out classed every other class on the mud, and even then thief wasn’t nearly as powerful as some classes are today.
Flame away >:)
Characters are very overpowered. It’s likely to stay that way until AC is fixed. It can’t get any lower without reworking half the mud. It can’t get any higher without nerfing almost everyone but the druids and warriors.
Unless they come up with some kind of classo determined AC cap, it’s likely to stay that way.
For example:
3 categories: Warrior, Armor (Bard/Cleric/Thief/Monk), No-Armor (Mage/Necro/Druid)
Warrior/Armor = -11
Warrior/No-Armor = -10
Armor/Warrior = -10
Armor/Armor = -9
Armor/No-Armor = -8
No-Armor/Warrior = -9
No-Armor/Armor = -8
No-Armor/No-Armor = -7
Simple chart… far from perfect, but it might perhaps help even things out a touch.
Flames?
I don’t think this would ever work. First of all, people put a large amount of time and effort into their eq sets, and telling them something they spent 3 months forging is no longer useful would not go over well.
Second, bmore currently runs at -10ac, 892hps, 539 mana. Forcing him to run at an extra 1.0ac would probably increase his power once I got a new eq set built, because of all the added bonuses he could get with a different eq set.
I’m not opposed to a system where everyone doesn’t run around like a tank, but I think we’ve gone too far down that road to turn back now.
pretty much, parry is the only thing that makes a warrior prime
the best tank right now. counterattack is a moderately close second.
so mo/ba/ne/dr is our best combination of newschool classes for tanking right ?
rolls con/dex
has counterattack
has rescue
has some mediocre amount of hp
why do none of the new classes roll str ?
Second, bmore currently runs at -10ac, 892hps, 539 mana. Forcing him to run at an extra 1.0ac would probably increase his power once I got a new eq set built, because of all the added bonuses he could get with a different eq set.[/quote:18tb3w21]
pretty much, parry is the only thing that makes a warrior prime the best tank right now. counterattack is a moderately close second.[/quote:18tb3w21]
So we shouldn’t do this because Warriors would become more useful tanks and Blackmore would become more powerful?
Not the arguments I was expecting. :lol:
I think they were saying that warriors are the only characters that would stay static under your system, which means that everyone else pretty much gets shafted. It might be nice if you could start a new system from scratch, but it’s not going to work with so many legacy players who have put forth so much effort to get that -10 and -11 gear.
Hehe, 12345 I’m not gonna even dignify your armor classing suggestions
with a flame…it’s just not how Sloth works.
I would like to see a change in how stats roll for new classes though.
I know that your stat ordering is based on 1 and 2nd classes..but
like say a cl wa th
hes gonna roll wiz str int .. when it should be wiz str dex
a necro rolls con secondary ..
Hehe, 12345 I’m not gonna even dignify your armor classing suggestions with a flame…it’s just not how Sloth works.[/quote:bphd87uf]
Not expecting AC to change, nerfs too many players, myself included. However, it’s common to hear about overpowered characters (you stated this yourself) and it’s common to hear that classes outside of warrior reach tank-class ACs. Warriors would also like something that gives their class an edge in tanking. This would also effectively give Warriors a bonus to offset their dwarfed skill list.
The solution, simple as it is, seems more painful than the problem. Another solution would be nice, but no one has offered an alternative yet.
it’s cool dude I agree
parry and disengage and crit hits is about it right now