After two hours of discussion, between zuzu, zeke and myself, we came up with the idea off removeing level limites on valk, and placing level limit back on lyme.. though maybe with 1x40 insted of 3x40.
this would encourage ppl to move off valk faster, and remove the ‘waiting for drac’ reason for leaving. thereby allowing/encouraging them to keep leveling.
and adding the lyme limits would prevent the max avvie dragging valkers to 8x20 bs that is becoming all to common.
Removing level-limit from valk is a good idea. I really hate the time, when you have to cycle drachma without leveling the prime class.
Putting the limit on Lyme will only move such newbie exp trains to other continents. Such “groups” won’t invite any other players, so I don’t see, how it’d fix anything.
Given the lack of exp groups, there’s little chance to join a large exp group, too. So far, I see that it’ll restrict access to lyme for 1x40 players, who join a notemp chop group and it’ll suck for them to be left out. Yet again, just 2 more reasons to bring the chop groups back at the similar exp rate that’s offlyme w/o bonuses.
I, for one, do not see anything wrong with group with a friend of different levels. This is the part of Sloth that I like. The other player simply gets as much exp as his total levels allow, that’s reasonable. A newbie can work as a peri or as a low-level bard, helping as much as he gets exp.
As you can see from here and the other thread, I don’t like limits and I prefer active solutions to problems, rather than trying to force someone do something by restricting his game-play.
Do you see many 8x20 on Lyme?
Do you know anyone except ME above 4x20, not mentioning 5x20 or more?
I threat this as personal attack.
You two are just angry at Surfnazi killing faster in “your” areas so you cannot compete with him.
Surprisingly, yall not trying to get better eq, a buddy and try to kill faster than him; instead, your intent is to screw up things so nobody can run exp like now.
This has nothing to do with “encouraging leaders to lead”. Shame!
I’ve played a number of characters past 2x20 and the only reasons I didn’t level prime were coliseum and valk quests. The time, when players need more prime levels, instead of farming valk quests, is about 2x20-3x20.
Yasik, please re-read what I wrote.
Quote: Putting the limit on Lyme will only move such newbie exp trains to other continents. Such “groups” won’t invite any other players, so I don’t see, how it’d fix anything.
Quote: I, for one, do not see anything wrong with group with a friend of different levels. This is the part of Sloth that I like. The other player simply gets as much exp as his total levels allow, that’s reasonable. A newbie can work as a peri or as a low-level bard, helping as much as he gets exp.
Even when it comes to 8x20, which are an exception, I still don’t see how putting them offlyme would help, which is what I’m trying to explain to Ezekiel in another thread. And only some of the 20-39lev experienced players would group with real newbies for exp, and none for eq.
It’s kinda funny, when you accuse me of envy and assume I do it because of you or Surf, when I’m trying to defend newbies being on Lyme.
Quote: your intent is to screw up things so nobody can run exp like now.
Please quote me, where exactly I want to screw up exp by suggesting that we need more people, more eq, more high-end areas and chop reinstatement.
P.S. Some ideas to encourage grouping:
once a week, make mobs in one area grant honor and all ppl, who kill the mob, get the same amount of honor (i.e, not splitting, otherwise they’ll be camped by honor-hungry ppl)
increase exp by 15% for players in the area that match the area difficulty (eg, 1x40 in Murkwood)
make group bonus kick in earlier for 21-4x40 players
Yasik, let the adults speak please. See, on the two threads, there have been multiple people voicing ideas/opinions to try to better the mud. You have listed none, you rather just whine about how your opinion differs and how everything is an attack on someone rather than looking at the merit of an argument and saying, “Hey, I view this a different way, maybe I should suggest X as the solution to what they’re saying is a problem.” It’s almost as if your purpose is simply to make people reactive by trying to make their actual suggestions seem like whines (by whining yourself but being accusatory). For instance, Taron and I differ on our take on some aspects of the game, but we both suggest ideas and work from there and are civil and respectful about our right to do so, rather than flailing about and saying, “It’s all about Surf, it’s all about me…waaaah…you’re trying to restrict my newb.” Maybe come up with a well thought out solution to issues other players have with the mud and, ya know, instead of thinking you have to immediately get defensive about things, think that maybe the people commenting are actually just trying to voice and be helpful, even if your opinion differs.
For the record, as I previously stated, I don’t fight with other avatars for Lyme…and I don’t care who runs it. My issue is with the x20 being dragged there and the net effects it’s having, nothing less, nothing more. As I also previously stated, I didn’t like when Dr did it, and I still don’t like when Surf does it even moreso. I rarely run Lyme myself, and spend more time off-Lyme helping here and there. So, again, how about making a suggestion that can actually benefit the mud instead of getting defensive.
“Do you know anyone except ME above 4x20, not mentioning 5x20 or more?”
Dingo and Tinx are just a couple. There are others also, levs come pretty fast on Lyme. Shall I go on?
“Surprisingly, yall not trying to get better eq, a buddy and try to kill faster than him; instead, your intent is to screw up things so nobody can run exp like now.”
Likely have better eq than him now and plenty of friends to run around with. You saw as much when you attacked me on channel while I was leading a large group (of course, off Lyme…but you know I’m just so jealous of these Lyme runs and that’s the whole motivation for all this).
Really looking forward to actually hearing some adult-style suggestions rather than childish accusations by you.
My ideas to encourage grouping:
-Add a 3x40 restrict back to Lyme (I’ve already listed my reasons why on other thread, no need to beat a dead horse and make this thread the other one if you disagree)
-Integrate more new high end forge equipment
-If not adding the Lyme restriction back, create new incentives to bring back chop as that is why newbs were initially allowed on to Lyme in the first place.
-I agree with Taron on the de-restricting Valk.
-Increase off-lyme leader xp
-Bring back at-least decent gem rates, which encouraged a lot more grouping with a variety of mobs (a lot in the mud died when that change was made).
Just some food for thought from where I sit.
Peace,
Ezekiel
So. we all agree. Valk cap is bad.
Please remove it..
Oh, and fix chop groups so taron can lead/tank/damn/web/and heal them for 8 hours a day for years to come!
Eze, when I suggested that we should increase gem poprates on Valk, Splork said:
Splork wrote: Gem pop rates will not be changing, unless they get lower.
Though, if Lyme pop rates are lower, than elsewhere, maybe bringing up to their offlyme level would make people group more on Lyme, especially, if the chop is back.
If Lyme stays open to newbies, newbies may get invited to share the exp and allow us pop more gems.
Oh wait, you are against newbies on Lyme.
Taron, you are under the presumption that adding newbies in groups increases gem pop chance (which has not been verified at all, only suggested on what could be mere coincidences) and that if gem pop was increased…that it somehow would be equivalent/increased on Lyme (which I’m not suggesting and I don’t think imms would go for anyway, since traditionally, they have not). Thus, gem pop chance wouldn’t deal with the Lyme issue at all…sorry you try to tie everything into still being able to run your newb there, but gem pop increase issue is not one.
- I only suggested increasing gem pop rate on Valk to bring remorts/experienced alts on Valk to increase groups.
Though there aren’t that many areas with big mobs, so I’m not sure how that’d help.
I merely quoted Splork that they are not going to increase any pop rate, even on Valk.
I’ve led lots of groups and there’s enough “coincidences” to suggest that the minimum member amount of group members we got a t3 gem with was 9 (or 8, I forgot). That included 2-3 newbies on Island/Dweb runs.
Though some said that the number of 40s plays a role here, but I haven’t tested it. Again, we don’t even have large groups any more since War, Sochi, Dr, Tembikai and Fluffy are taking a break and Alris is MIA, too.
Ezekiel wrote: sorry you try to tie everything into still being able to run your newb there, but gem pop increase issue is not one.
Believe it or not, I’m thinking in terms of new players being able to join exp groups, interest which is shared by you, me and immorts. (Even though the whole idea of forcing people to group is questionable.)
Please read the following lines keeping that in mind:
we agree that chop groups for exp would bring newbies back on Lyme
if Lyme gem pop rate is same as offlyme, there will be more groups: more even chances to get newbies to join them. In fact, it may be one of the two factors that’d enable chop groups.
if group member amount helps gem pop rates, which is my belief, based on experience (have anyone popped a t3 solo?), then there are even more reasons for new players to join exp groups (or rather, leaders to invite them and group members to keep them alive).
Again, try to understand that you read into my argument the same thing Yasik is reading into ours: it’s not about my newbie or anyone’s, it’s about letting new players in groups of old players. And Lyme chop is another type of groups that experienced players can join in, if the exp there is reasonable and poprate as good as offlyme (otherwise, why bother with grouping on Lyme for exp at all?).
I’m simply trying to find a solution to improve the game play, not force someone change theirs just because some of the gameplay or player amount need improvement.
P.S. I understand that you are taking a break since you lost a golden sack. If immorts don’t help you, let me try to restore at least some of the contents. Losing players on such minor incidents sucks.
I am wondering if having a scheduled time would help.. especially on weekends..
That is… i wil be on saturday, and if we get a tank and healer.. will lead..
problem is, ppl no show to much… but maybe we can try?
Not sure how to approach it.. ie- should leader post when they are willing, or tank or healer? Seems we have troubles getting the three together… myself i never really know much ahead of time, so dunno..
Just waking up, so someone organize my thoughs already!
I thought about a quarterly calendar, where we could see:
global bonus days
quest announcements
where leaders could submit the time, when they plan to start and end leading.
As usual, it requires some Breeze time to integrate global bonus days to the calendar (or we’ll have re-enter them every month or so).
That being said, it’s summer, so I doubt we’ll even have the people.
Though I’ll look into the calendar thing, if I have time.
There are many factors which play into gem pop rates. A few of those factors are group size, xp of creature, and if your on Lyme or not.
The larger the mob the greater the pop rate.
The more group members you have, the better the pop rate.
If your off Lyme, the better the pop rate.
Teron wrote: I thought about a quarterly calendar, where we could see:
global bonus days
quest announcements
where leaders could submit the time, when they plan to start and end leading.
As usual, it requires some Breeze time to integrate global bonus days to the calendar (or we’ll have re-enter them every month or so).
That being said, it’s summer, so I doubt we’ll even have the people.
Though I’ll look into the calendar thing, if I have time.
come up with a complete idea for the website and I will consider it..
Splork, since at least Eze and I agree that we need chop grops, would you consider at least upping the Lyme gem pop rate to the level of off-Lyme? That’d offer an incentive for people to kill large mobs there, rather than solo.
Also, how about increasing exp on chop mobs to the level of non-bonus offlyme exp? I/we can provide some ongoing feedback on how it correlates with offlyme, if you do decide to change it (right now it’s several times worse, than offlyme even with 5-8 ppl).
Breeze, I’ll try to provide more precise suggestion during the week.
We have enjoyed watching this thread and the many opinions within.
We will not change gem pop rates.
We are open to increasing the chop percentage and xp rate of chop.
any chance of opening valk?
We are not actively discussing opening up Valk to all players.
The better solution would be to move Valk or all of Valk’s content to BH but we are not currently discussing that solution either.
Why not increase the valk limit to 30 or 40 prime, so players pop/forge the stuff they need then? Hardly all newbies know that they can’t go back to valk after leveling 21 to complete autoquests, do eq and do coliseum.
Understood. The simple answer is that we are not opening up level 20 areas to be annihilated by higher level characters.
personally I love to group but it is almost impossible to find someone to group with due to levels
and this isn’t just for people pass 2x40/3x40,,,
a person who focused on 1x40 and didn’t level his other classes too much grouped with one of the valkers who went past 4x20 (lets say 6x20) can easily get less than 25% of the exp as well as the reversed a 1x40 who is trying to do the coliseum and levels all his other classes really high could also easily steal all the exp from a fellow 1x40
I think if grouping in small groups was more rewarding more people would do it.
The problem with Valk is that I and everyone else have to tell all real newbies that get to 20 to stay on valk, finish quests, eq and coliseum. And when I or anyone hadn’t told them, they have to ask to be deleveled to 21, because they had already missed a significant chunk of gameplay and a limited, highly guarded, resource.
It really needs to be plastered across all relevant helpfiles, autoquests, leveling21 off-valk (require an informed consent to do it), signs, etc.
I wonder if there could be an option to skip valk and start as a level 20 with free rerolls and the drachma…
however start them as unarmored and only give them the skills up to level 3 (sorta like skipping the tutorial) that way more people will worry less about trying to achieve everything on valk and actually experience the actual game.
this will still leave valk relevant due to people wanting valk only eq like the jing jit disc and sleeves of the clown lord marshall etc. (other stuff can be added as well to make the valk start more appealing)
Create a 20 valk character with 130 drachma.
Buy 32 oct tokens.
Pass tokens to your alt or buyer.
Create new character.
Repeat.
There’s no way there’s gonna be a way to create 20 lev chars with drachma.
It’ll only create players, who don’t know how to play, but already don’t have immune to aggro (1-15lev), the hometown command and stuff. There’s no way it’ll help.
Also, it’ll leave 20s out of grandmaster thug groups, pretty much the only groups we are seeing on Valk.
Token method doesn’t work anymore unfortunately.
R,
Dr
We have increased the following spec weapons damage:
macu from 1/7 total damage to 1/6
spec from 1/7 total damage to 1/6
triblade from 1/7 total damage to 1/6
sacrificial knife from 1/9 total damage to 1/7
Any weapons currently in-game will have old statistics, players will need pop new weapons for the newly created stats. We will not be replacing the ones currently in-game!
Somebody sent me an email asking a good question: Why hasn’t the ID on specs changed since the stat changes?
Specs work because of a Vorpal proc which gets added to the weapon. This proc controls things such as how often it triggers, how much damage per chop can be done, how often the weapon chops group members, and on and on. This information is not seen with the identification spell.
I have just changed the scimitar chopper to do more damage per chop. It used to do 1/8 of a creature’s total hps. I’ve increased it to 1/6.
We did not change the ratio per which chops happen, we have changed the total percentage done per chop which should clearly increase the rate at which mobs die. Again, only newly loaded and popped items will have new stats. I am going to reboot this morning so that only new weapons will be in-game.
Here is my stat of the item:
statpr chopper
CONFIG_ID[0] Type: PROC[3] - vorpal
PROC_EDITED_BY="Splork";
chop_value="6";
CFG_ID="1";
PROC_NUM="3";
PROC_ENABLED="1";
group_chop_adjust="12";
1024rm 0wz 514sv>
I’ve tested a large curved scimitar after reboot.
It dealt about 7-8% of mob hps, which isn’t 1/6 (16.66%). The mob wasn’t sanced: a beast-headed giant in the valley of dust and fire.
I have a log, if needed.
I logged in and checked and for some reason the procs are not adjusting to the new rates. When I set the proc % to be higher, I can kill a mob in 6 chops, like it should. When I keep the proc % default, it takes way more than it should.
I will try to find time tonight and see what I can find out.
After doing some testing, there was indeed a bug in the vorpal proc. There are different rates for Lyme and off Lyme chop and everything was defaulting to off lyme rates.
I have fixed this bug and because of it set the choppers mentioned above to rate of 1/7. Please test these rates and let me know how the exp is. Remember, before the rates was 1/13 or 1/15 so by going to 1/7 the rate should be incredibly faster.
Thanks Taron for the above post, it made me dig deeper and find the issue.
I need to reboot to get the change live.
just an ideal you could introduce group quests (its very common on valk to group for grandmaster thug)
so my ideal is make a daily/weekly quest for people in a group and offer currency/gems/items/etc
the ideal of the group quest would be to make it long (not just a pop an item) it could be like killing a certain amount of a enemy type or a list of mobs etc
The Grandmaster Thug quest is solo, we just need to be prepared, otherwise its quite hard.
Regarding the main topic,
At first, let us not forget that this thread started by person who cant solo, so he want to complain trying to make imms to change the game as he likes so he could achieve 9x40 in a week and retire (which is not the worst idea - his retirement);
At second, even if we agree that there is a problem that people do not really want to group with themselves, then a solution can be as I said : implementing “leadership points” (LP) along with exp/honor/drachma points, removing leader exp bonus, make a store with goods can be bought for LP:
godsanc potion (duration 40 min) : 100 LP;
adamantium skin potion (duration 40 min, -4.0AC) : 100 LP;
full HP restore potion (heals to max) : 100 LP;
(your idea here);
“LP goods” can be designed to not give too much overpower, just a slight increase over what we already can get.
LP price can be adjusted to acceptable rate along with LP earn per kill.
Only leader gets LP for kill.
LP per kill depends on size of mob and size of group.
A “group” is considered a company of 5 or more.
Just a sketch, can be discussed more or declined.
Only way to herd people into group - by making them want to group, abusing their personal motives in pursuit to make their characters more powerful.
Zenoko, that’s a good idea.
Yasik,
- How does removing exp/gold leadership bonus incentivize leaders to lead?
The potions you listed aren’t useful to leaders, to tanks - maybe. But even then, some tanks already have godsanc or use goblets/potions, so replacing leadership bonus for this is a waste of exp.
You said:
Quote: Only way to herd people into group - by making them want to group, abusing their personal motives in pursuit to make their characters more powerful.
The leadership exp I get is my own, I use it to make my character more powerful.
The potions you suggested will not significantly increase the exp (not by a factor of 20%) and likely hp/mana restore potions will be given away to tanks and healers.
Again, how does this affect personal leaders’ motives?
Right now, you are saying, to motivate leaders, let’s take away leadership exp and gold and split the benefits among the group. Why not make tanks spend their own points on their own potions?
- There already are ways to prolong runs, but people don’t stay focused for longer, than 10-15 minutes. There are plenty of reasons to go afk that may arise. Working on making groups run longer may be fruitless, unless we accept that people can afk, while doing exp.
Overall, I like an idea for a leadership/tank shop, but perhaps introducing another currency is too much. Add honor to leadership/tank bonus and create a shop to buy eq/stuff for honor for everyone. That may work more effectively.
P.S. Yasik, you personally insulted a player, who got 3 characters to 9x40, whereas you haven’t done it once. What’s more, Cyprimus has soloed most of his way there. Even if you take Cyprimus, who seemed to tank groups a lot, you’ll see that he did almost exactly 50% exp solo:
As for Ip, who gripped a lot in my groups, that exp is about 20-30% of his total exp, the rest he soloed.
So please keep your finger-pointing to yourself, apologize to Cyprimus, and let’s stick to the topic.
I’ve finally ran a chop group yesterday with the following results:
the first hour was almost as good as offlyme exp
the other hour was half of that, thanks to hitting more eq mobs, smaller mobs or waiting for ppl to figure out the archways
after 4 hours, the exp I got was what I’d normally get for 2.5-3hrs of offlyme chop.
If chop leaders remember what mobs to hit for constantly changing group size and hit less eq, less Olympus and more exp, the exp can be slightly less or similar to offlyme exp, with the same caveat that mobs need to be killed only once for aged exp.
In 4 hours we didn’t run out of exp mobs, popped 2 useful items, had fun chopping, so I guess it was a good run.
Group members can report how they liked the group, too.
We need a phone app with alerts related to grouping, i.e. group of size X is formed or leader Y has started a group or player Z has pinged me to join. I bet that would entice a lot of people into logging more frequently. I know it would work on me.
juggleblood wrote: We need a phone app with alerts related to grouping, i.e. group of size X is formed or leader Y has started a group or player Z has pinged me to join. I bet that would entice a lot of people into logging more frequently. I know it would work on me.
Brilliant idea. The phone app can be used to update players about upcoming quest/events as well :lol:
I would load it on my phone.
- Stilgar
Way ahead of you people.
You can use a mobile app, the web version or a desktop client to stay in touch:
http://www.slothmud.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4629
For mobile, you need to download the Telegram app and join the Slothmud channel:
http://telegram.me/slothmud - or search for slothmud in any Telegram client.
Right now, it’s mostly used for asking for raises and occasional group announcements. With more ppl there, I’d announce groups more often.
As for future groups, there’s an announcement sticker there, as well as the determination to plan ahead.
As for planning far in advance, there’s an idea of a 2-month schedule that’d include continent days, global bonuses, quest announcements, group announcements. I am yet to research this, have way too much on my plate atm.
I think it’s more efficient to use an existing app, than create your own. It takes lots of effort to do one, especially, if you want to link the mud to it (ie, send announcements whenever a group is formed).
P.S. In a recent chop group of about 6-8 ppl, we managed to do good consistent exp for 2 hours. With more tri40s or avatars, it’s possible to go for 3 hrs on aged mobs only (or stick to titans/oly, etc). It was pretty fun, especially with a chop counter.
Ok, I am using Telegram Slothmud Channel now, thanks for the tip. I encourage more people to do this by sending out chat msgs when they forming a group, or need a raise. It’s pretty cool. I wonder if there’s a way to have the game send out telegram msgs? That could be pretty awesome. If for example a chat message went out everytime the extras change, or even maybe if an epic dies.
- You/Breeze/Splork can create a SlothBot:
https://core.telegram.org/bots
basically, it can send messages and provide button interfaces to get more data out of the bot.
What the bot can do depends on what info you feed him, e.g., there’s a stat bot in the chat room, and you can use it by pressing its button near the text field or by typing this command: /stat@comstatbot.
For instance, you can make buttons to show current who list, group list or even recent forum posts/threads.
Though I’d suggest to keep it really simple and brief, because overwhelming the UI/bot can be spammy and unusable.
- Also, I suggested to Breeze/Splork to check out an MMORPG bot:
https://telegram.me/playrpgbot
(open the link or search for playrpgbot in any Telegram client: https://telegram.org/apps)
Basically, you can play a text game via buttons and links, without typing anything - though you can type commands and messages, if you want to.
The idea is that if we made another bot and ported a few areas (say, from Valk) with increasing level difficulty, this could show the Telegram people the world of Sloth and maybe invite them in, because MUD clients provide aliases and scripts, too. Especially, if we can port the saved bot characters to Sloth: even if we start them at 20/0/0/0, it’d help to bring over their invested time in here.
Or, I dunno, treat the bot as another web client and allow players explore the existing world of Sloth via its interface. To think of it, it’d provide a usable interface to play Sloth, while on a smartphone or tablet, when you don’t have to type anything. Limiting, yes, but still able to kill the simplest stuff or group by using a few aliases.
Yesterday we chopped for 2 hrs with 10-12 ppl, and when we moved to AH, we did 25% more exp.
So I’d say lyme chop is alive, but only when ppl need to chop and it’s impossible to kill larger areas offlyme.
Also, it seems the blazing sword of maul titans procs for 8% damage, not 16%.