Who cares?

“HEAVY ARMOR PROFICIENCY”

Level: Warrior 38

Manual: ??

Only those who have been trained in the proper use of very heavy armor

can fully utilize its protective power. This skill represents a level

of competency in heavily armored combat. Without this proficiency, the

maximum achievable armor class is -10. However, with this skill any

warrior can achieve -11. For the truly devoted warrior prime with

this skill, there is no limit to the armor class that can be reached

(with the right equipment).

Non warriors are now capped at -10 AC, despite how much time and drachma you’ve invested in getting elite/drachma/quest gear.

Only prime warriors can reach -12 or better AC.

Adding more skills to only warrior PRIME???

I don’t have any chars over ac-10 so it doesn’t really matter. However I

do know alot of clerics/mages/necros/bards that try to get their AC as

high as they can and also max out their spell dam or other stats.

This really sucks for them, and I do feel their pain :(

Funny alternative: In D&D – which I am overly fond of…

Wearing heavier armors yields increasing chances of arcane spell failure. Wouldn’t that be fun?

A char without heavy armor proficiency wearing -11 or -12 AC gets -25% or -50% chance to successfully cast spells.

Just imagine an archmage decked out in so much armor he can barely move struggling desparately to heal himself :)

Well I know one non Wa that this will nerf a lil bit.

Poor Yinbot.

I don’t have a problem with the change, I think its a logical and good one.

However, I think there should be a period of time where non warriors should be allowed to sell their drachma AC items back to the shop for a 100% refund. Since these items basically served to get over -10, its only fair that they get their drachma back for those items if they so desire.

Adding more skills to only warrior PRIME???

I don’t have any chars over ac-10 so it doesn’t really matter. However I

do know alot of clerics/mages/necros/bards that try to get their AC as

high as they can and also max out their spell dam or other stats.

This really sucks for them, and I do feel their pain :([/quote:3opreshb]

i for one think it is fuk king bullshit that a god da mne d caster can get ac as high as a wa prime can. i say hell yeah cap those bastards. they’re supposed to be focused more on magical prowess than on physical h2h combat. they have spent years training their brains, not their brawn. also, i think that nc primes should be similarly capped on their spelldam, seeing as how the ncs have spent their time studying fighting techniques rather than the concentration required to cast a spell. it is only logical. oh wait…we’re not vulcan. wrong show.

“i bet she gives great helmet” – dark helmet –>spaceballs

There are caps for spells

90 70 50 30 I believe … unless your asking for a bigger cap?

Since they are capping AC for non-Warriors. Then what about increasing

caps for Mage Primes, or any other mage orders? Only make sense right?

Take a little here, give a little there :)

Reb STFU and quit your god damn bitching. If you can cap your spelldam wtf is the use to get more? Oh right there isn’t so dont give this bullshit of you should worry about capping that when its already capped instead of ac you dumbass. Just cuz your too lazy to run eq and have patience to get it, for people that have done it got the eq and are getting settled in it totally screws.

Carry on there is my rant

Are you f-g kidding me?

I sure the hell have a problem with it! And I think Firebrand is probably running -9 so a hardy STFU for you, sweetie. It took a hell of a lot of effort to get -11 on a ca/ca, especially with “close to cap” spell damage. It’s been incredibly fun and rewarding to solo stuff that wasn’t before achievable. Now I have to shift into some stupid F-g Piasa to achieve -11. That is B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T!!!

Thanks for the beating…

WOOO WOOOO

Lets all make Wa/Ma/Cl/Ne They will RULE THE WORLD!!!

Are you f-g kidding me?

Thanks for the beating…[/quote:1cfgrx8h]

Lol by this standard even piasa will not have -11.

I think–I hope–I jumped the gun. Is heavy armor proficiency prime only? Please clarify…

Either way, I think it’s dumb to have to include warrior in your classo to achieve -11 but I could live with that a little more.

I think–I hope–I jumped the gun. Is heavy armor proficiency prime only? Please clarify…

Either way, I think it’s dumb to have to include warrior in your classo to achieve -11 but I could live with that a little more.[/quote:1qmajzm4]

heavy armor proficiency - Lvl: 38, Unlearned

Medios has it. I am still going to run -8.

I go by this principle. If you have a thief play a thief. If you have a mage play a mage. Etc, etc, etc….. I never was one to have a cleric warrior and run around in -10 with no regen gear. See in the groups I like to run everyone has a job determined by their prime and secondary abilities. Sure in small groups sometimes mages heal, but the overall point I am trying to make is that if you want to play a warrior just make one. If you want to bitch about new class orders then make one. Just please everyone, shhh.

Mike

PS Especially Guinex, smoke

Interesting, I think it’s neat that you get to choose four whole classes.

can thier shapeshifted forms still go past the cap?

Kjartan gossips– ‘druid forms can still go to whatever they went to before’

Although I only run -10ac solo respectively, i’m a much better tank then some others out there. I do agree that War primes should get a heavy armor style benefit, but capping the rest of us from reaching and/or knocking down those whom have achieved is pretty rediculous.

I understand that some of the admins never expected ca/ca or quad casters to get -11 etc. But jesus, you should revel in the creativity that some of these players have achieved. Can you imagine the work required to sift through the eq lists, run drach quests and forge specific items that you CAN use to maximize your char, only to have it busted down for no reason?

When the AC bug was fixed by KJ, the statement was made that not only PC’s but NPC’s now could achieve even greater ac variables including -13 and beyond. This was great news and widely accepted by the entire player base that hard work and effort will endure you special benefits. Now after all that, we’re gonna knock you back down. Logically to a veteran of SlothMUD, this would be the same as demoting an IMM 2 levels just because you found out they could echo in blue instead of white.

Even though this does not effect me in currently in any way, it removes the choice that I would have been able to make on my own. Fixing the ac cap bug and then creating a new one only single out people is disheartening at the least. Creating class specific Elite eq is much more humane then nullifying the already achieved struggles that ca/ca’s and non-war’s have worked so hard to do.

Agreeing with KJ’s original statement that ac should not be capped for those working to attain it. Even though 99.9% of us might never see -11 or higher, it is something to admire. When Brady and Yinao hit -11ac and Yinao nearing -12 to me is amazing and i commend them rather then downgrade them.

ponder, rethink, repair

One more brief gripe and I’ll shaddup. I can imagine the amount of work involved in revamping the eq restricts but this just seems like a lazy way of doing just that. It’s hard to wrap my head around the fact that I can read a book and the eq I am already wearing magically becomes -1.0 thicker. Curious to see what happens at 50%. Will I be -10.5 or do i just need to rent a bunch of times until I get the ac i want?

Because of the change, will Non-Warrior NPC also be limited to -10?

I think that the way all the changes are done on sloth is bitchy and I don’t feel like thinking about the changes itself, think I can spent my time in a much better way.

I think–I hope–I jumped the gun. Is heavy armor proficiency prime only? Please clarify…

Either way, I think it’s dumb to have to include warrior in your classo to achieve -11 but I could live with that a little more.[/quote:2y2wmp65]

heavy armor proficiency - Lvl: 38, Unlearned

Medios has it. I am still going to run -8.

Mike

PS Especially Guinex, smoke[/quote:2y2wmp65]

Okay, do something so I can improve my blasting power and regen and I sure will. What should I do if I’m already capped at everything?

Mike

PS Especially Guinex, smoke[/quote:30hh431l]

And sometimes you make Lis mage-tanking with -11.

Guess you just want to see how long mage-tank will last. sniff

Blackula was made to be an all new-class tank..where is the love for Bards? I think they should be able to get -11 at least.

Blackula was made to be an all new-class tank..where is the love for Bards? I think they should be able to get -11 at least.[/quote:1q57ypu4]

agreed

I’ve always been for casters being casters, but not like this.

How about nc/nc chars being capped at 300 mana? :twisted:

Having an AC restriction is so brain-damaged I see no point in talking about this one.

Idiotic.

Some general comments on the change:

anyone with warrior in the class order can get -11

primes warriors can go lower

Until a few months ago, -11 and lower did not even work correctly, so people were living without its benefits for a long time.

We consider the mud to be fairly dynmaic, and are always working on changes and improvements. Not all will be super popular, but considering what I said above, I dont think this one will have a huge impact other than a few rare characters. Why was this particular change made?

As someone pointed out, much of the game follows principles established in a certain roll playing game. In that game, there are penalties for heavy armor, like dex bonus loss, arcane spell failure, etc…As a general whole we wanted to preserve what each class represented but felt this was type of solution was not the way. Warrior in general should have some advantages that makes it, well a warrior. The big guy/gal at the front of the line, with the heaviest armor and the greatest stand-in power. As a supporting class, warrior gains something, as a prime, there is less talk about a class without even warrior in it being superior to a warrior as a tank.

On a side note, we also made some changes to backstab which allows a + to hit bonuses, regardless of source, to properly affect stab, previously this was also not working. The benefits of singing were brought more in line with other hitting bonuses as well.

We definately do listen to all comments and constructive criticism, much of these ideas actually came from player base and some issues that were brought up. If you put together a good discussion/argument, rather than just bash something, we are always open to those ideas.

Thanks,

Krom

Thanks Balrog. Anything on Bard primes getting the non-prime warrior affect maybe or just for sure not gonna happen? Bards actually get the best real “tank item” for their personal autoquest (.8 15hp shoulders with charisma), so I’m guessing that the grand plan was to go ahead and let them be somewhere in between monks and warriors for AC.

I always took it like Wa=Ba, Th=Mo, Cl=Dr, n Ma=Ne.

[quote:1ilzpfo2]Krom – As a supporting class, warrior gains something, as a prime, there is less talk about a class without even warrior in it being superior to a warrior as a tank.

[/quote:1ilzpfo2]

So let me get this straight, you made this change because some [i:1ilzpfo2]player[/i:1ilzpfo2] made a good argument as to nonwarriors being superior to warrior prime tanks? I would have thought it was fairly obvious that with:

Far superior hp, both naturally and with better eq selection
Oath of Victory (150 free hp vs. any mob)
Warcry (30-100 MORE free hps vs. any mob in groups)
Parry

It was quite clear that warriors were already far superior as tanks. I would like to hear the well reasoned argument from the playerbase that said non warriors were better tanks… I’ve also never seen a (non_chat) group larger than 5 that didn’t have a ‘real tank’ – a warrior.

So having established that warriors with their better eq selection, hps, and abilities make for the best tanks by far, your explanation I’ll afraid falls short.

Feel free to take another stab at explaining your need to nerf all the MANY (yes, many) nonwarrior avatars who had a -11 gear, painfully assembled through quests and endless cycling, and were still questing for -12.

I have to agree that I don’t like this change. It seems like we are addressing a symptom, and not the underlying problem. You say there should be trade-offs for wearing heavier armor, but you’re not introducing any compromises. The current change only forces a new limitation based on class choices that some of us made 5 or more years ago. Introducing caps (to anything) is a poor way to fix the system. It only limits what we can do without allowing choices.

I would rather be allowed to pick and choose what equipment I wear to meet my objectives. If my objective is to hit a certain AC, there should be disadvantages of course but it should be possible. In my opinion, the broken thing about high AC is that you can get very high AC along with +damage, +spelldam, +mana, +regen, etc. Eq with the high AC values should have no other benefits or also come with disadvantages.

If a tank must decide whether to run -11 with 300 extra HPs or with -12, that’s an interesting decision. Forcing him to run at -11 takes away his chance to decide for himself. Similarly, a mage should be able to decide whether to run at -9 at full spelldam or at -11 with no spelldam at all. This method uses EQ to allow players some flexibility and choice when they play, rather than forcing them into a role defined by the someone else.

I have said before that designing eq that allows characters to run at their “max” of anything while still attaining the max AC was a silly design decision. Thieves should have to choose whether to run with a wuss stab and good AC, or great stab and lower AC. It would be better to make this a function of equipment worn rather than forcing it based on classo. High end AC should have -hit, -dam, -mr, -mana. Top of the line AC (forges etc) could have high AC without the negatives.

Used to think that this was the whole reasoning behind having restictions on eq based by class. as it is now we might as well just have restictions based on lvl since we have a hard cap to eliminate the classes. instead of having restricts on eq that actually make sense they just hard code a cap. instead of having to hear about casters saving up drachma for a relic just make the relic useable by warriors only! put warrior restricts on the max ac items, both ingame and elite/quest. that will have the desired affect but still leave a bit of wiggle room for characters who are creative. last i checked this was still a multi-class mud. we are heading down the path to where prime class matters more than the other 3.

as far as the argument that there were no penalties for mages wearing all that heavy armor. the penalties came in mana/hp/mana regen being lost by having to wear that eq. there was always that give and take, weighing what would be more helpful to my chars, now, no choice.

i also see this as a bit of an over-reaction, within one or two items, tanks will hit -13, adjust one or two retricts and best non-wa will be able to get is -11. right now -10 is basically like light armor, everyone has it or can easily get it, this puts -11 in the medium armor range. heavy armor -12 and better. i don’t like seeing casters tryin to run around tanking, but if that’s what they try to do, more power to em. tanks will always be better at it, even b4 these changes, it wasn’t even close. well, enough about ac changes. to the real matter at hand!

the change to stab was probly long overdue. i have no real problem with it at all except there is next to zero useful +hit eq ingame. the only real useable item is the red eye clasp. thieves already sacrifice their ac to wear damage eq (which if this had been done to other classes we wouldn’t have the problem w/ ac, at least 4 slots for mages to have max ac and max spelldam!) and now we gotta wear a ring w/ no ac to add 2 hit? there’s actually some sleeves w/ ac hit and dmg!! ohh wait, they take the slot of our prime class quest item and are restricted to warrior, go figure. after that it only gets uglier, feel free to take a look at the eq list, it’s pretty sad. you have to go back about 5 yrs to see the last piece of +hit eq that actually got added to an area (that i can think of, give or take a decade), mask of the great thief from temple ruins, sweet!!

again, i have no problem w/ the thief change, even though it totally rapes vaire and basically removes bard class from his order. but can we at least get some items that are useable that have +hit on em?

and i don’t mind the spirit of the ac changes, i just think it was implemented in a fairly bass ackwards way. but that’s just me. not like i’m goin anywhere.

peace out

I guess warrior tanks come down to AC and HPs. Everyone should be able to wear similar armor, but warriors should be able to stand up to the punishment. Maybe more skills that give temp HPs, or an amount of temp HPs depending on the size of the group?

It sounds like the +hit for stabs change also reduced the amount that songs boost the stab rate? I guess if we can have songs that give +10 damage, why not songs that give +10 hit? …especially if mob AC can go beyond -10 now too. The eq will sort itself out over time, as areas are added a lot of imms do ask for suggestions on new eq. If +hit is useful now, maybe we’ll get some items added that reflect the new situation.

[quote:1uus6gu8] Maybe more skills that give temp HPs, or an amount of temp HPs depending on the size of the group?[/quote:1uus6gu8]

or maybe just fix oaths so it’s actually useful. My warrior’s tried oath of victory extensively and your hp from it go away before you get hit, so all it gives you is an inability to leave combat.

The idea of giving Bard primes the nonprime-warrior version of this (-11 max) is good. Warriors should be the best tanks, but not the only tanks. Bard seems designed to give large AC along with its +cha, and letting a 3xcaster/wa quad out-tank bard/monk/thief/__… :?

I’m sure the +hit eq will even out w/ new areas, luckily at our rate of about 2 new areas a year my kids will be set!!

Congratulations!!![/size:2w5y9zck][/color:2w5y9zck] You’ve done that![/size:2w5y9zck][/color:2w5y9zck]

The most idiotic change i’ve ever seen.[/size:2w5y9zck]

Kida, the bard who don’t need ‘iron skin’ anymore

P.S. Give me your phucking logic answer for why do bards used to roll DEX before STR if they won’t get -11 from now on?

You ruined player’s plans to build chars with -11ac. OK, we’ll live with it.

But I know some people who spent about 1k drachma for elite items with good AC because they were going to get -11 with iron skin etc.

What do you think about my ‘constructive critical idea’ to make reimbursement for everyone who can’t get -11 now??

And my another ‘constructive critical idea’ is to get advice from your player base BEFORE you change the rules of the world, is it any good?

Edd/Kida

I feel pretty strongly about this myself, coming from a D&D type background, I just dont see the logic in even allowing 3x casters with bard (traiditionally a lightly armored rogue but changed a bit for slothmud interpretation) as a quad to even be able to use eq that would allow them to come close to “amor clad” knight. Makes no sense. So yes, we made some errors in eq restrictions perhaps to allow this to come up, and I think this is the time to address it.

We all know fullwell that the game is full of tradeoffs eq wise. Your -11 tri-quad caster can pick up more damage, spelldam, charisma, mana regen, or mana and run -10. You will probably end up being tougher.

For strider’s comments about thieves: There are some good +hit equipment out there, if you take the time to re-evaluate what is available. Prison-guard helm is one that comes to mind (-1.2 +2 to hit) but there are several others. In actuality, the thief change helps everyone with ANY +hit with the exception of someone who may have had almost no bonus and just singing brothers in valour. The songs will still help you quite a bit, just not make it so you almost cannot miss with just that song alone. I will, however, add an item or so to the new area that is ready to go in to give some tradeoffs in this area. Also songs for damage were not affected.

Back to armor:

For kida (or anyone else who thinks they are greatly wronged by this) – my bard would be able to hit -11 with no drachma eq at 3x40+38 with iron skin. I am not buying big drachma expenses and effort to get to -11, but if you want to email me your equipment set and what you bought in the drachma shop to achieve this end, I will look at it and see what I can do to make it right, because I do agree, if you specifically tailored your guy for this end, I would be willing to help you out. krom@slothmud.org

Imagine with me we are at a time in the mud a year ago. Everyone’s AC is capped at -11. You could imagine with me a time in the mud about five years ago where AC was capped at -10, but that’s not completely my point. Anyway, imagine a year ago we announced a new skill for warrior primes to go beyond -11.

Players in general (warriors and non-warriors) would have some concerns about warriors becoming overpowered versus other classes, but likely people would be in favor of the change since it enables warriors to be more creative with their EQ. Bard’s might claim they should have it too, but that’s about extent of reasonable arguments that would be set forth.

So, obviously it didn’t happen this way. We screwed up and didn’t count on other classes being able to get to ridiculous AC levels, so we had to go back and fix it. There are other potential fixes we discussed, but they would have been far too painful for everyone (admin and players).

These include:

adjusting restrictions on all existing eq so that there are no possible combinations for non-warriors to get to -11. Consequently this would also mean that they probably couldn’t even get to -7 reasonably.
adjusting stats on existing good ac items to start choking out mana/regen (including making them drastically negative) and other things which would effectively cripple warriors and start adding positive ac to good mana/regen items
cap it behind the scenes; effectively dangling a fictitious carrot for non-warriors and encouraging mistrust between players and administration over how well low AC’s really work

We chose to do something for the good of the game and in the easiest way for us and the players.

I and the rest of the admin are sorry people spent time, energy and drachma to get to something we shouldn’t have allowed.

Isn’t helm Wa and Ma restricted, unless it was just changed… HEADBUTT!

Bard primes should get the non-prime warrior one is all I’m saying.

Sooooo…

War Prime = -12 or lower

War in Class = -11

No War = -10

I would like to respond to everyone who is complaining (which is, well, pretty much everyone).

I would like to give you all the same response many of you have given me over the last 6 years or so whenever I’ve moaned about warrior prime issues, and here is that very same response:

[b:2c5u7wui]If you don’t like the change, MAKE A WARRIOR PRIME CHAR![/b:2c5u7wui]

:twisted:

no, it isn’t nice being told that when you (in your opinion) have legitimate gripes, is it?

Too fapping bad.

btw, this is not a Warrior bonus, this is a restriction to non-warriors, so don’t go saying warriors have it sweet now either..

wtf is a ca/ca non-wa classo doing with -11ac anyway, let alone -12ac! That’s ridiculous - they were never intended for that, and I think everyone understands that much at least - their strengths lay elsewhere, or at least were supposed to. I have some sympathy for Bards as they are, afaik, intended to be more Warrior-like, but sh*t, there are ca/ca’s out there with the same ac as me and higher hp regen and insanely higher mana regen rates.. it’s so stupid. I wont even mention the word balance. Warriors suck, but I’ve invested too much time and effort to change now.

Bah humbug.

:twisted:

Warriors have it sweet now!!

Next topic:

When will psteal be back full-time?

laugh how long have you been waiting to post that Weasel? :)

laugh how long have you been waiting to post that Weasel? :)[/quote:pmxcepjb]

hehe.. years. poke.

..gawd, that was really satisfying too. :twisted:

Warriors have it sweet now!!

Next topic:

When will psteal be back full-time?[/quote:3v7jk7il]

heh. thucking fiefs.

Bard primes..

It sounds like the +hit for stabs change also reduced the amount that songs boost the stab rate?[/quote:1j75q6x9]

Actually, this is the concept that I built Deathsong on. With Brothers in Valor your miss rate for stabs was effectively reduced to a flat 5% chance. ie. You only missed if you rolled a 1 in 20 to hit.

Question for the coders:

It seems heavy armor proficiency is learned to a max of 95%, does that mean my AC will drop 5% of the time or what? shouldn’t it be 100% like oaths, or is this a nerf to warriors as well?

No, you have it you have it. At 50% you may lose some, or not be able to max out, but at 95% it doesnt fail :)

Aka

great thanks for the clarification.

In one breath, Weasel, you say if you don’t like it then suck it up and start anew. In the next breath, you say that you’ve invested too much time and energy to start fresh. I think you’ve been at the rat poison, my friend.

I understand the change. It makes total sense that non-warrior primes shouldn’t be able to achieve -12 or greater. I think it makes sense that 4x casters are capped at -10. I think the manual idea is a little silly, but whatever. I just think bards should be able to read the book and if they actually do achieve -12, it should be useless.

I strive to confuzzle. :)

btw, I wasn’t breathing at the time. Could you tell?

While i appreciate the response i’ll have to disagree that there is a lot of useable +hit eq for a thief. there’s all of 4 slots where +hit is available that isn’t occupied by dmg, and if you have monk and wear hand dmg eq it drops down to 2, a ring and a helm. and the helm can’t even be worn by a thief, warrior and mage restricts so that leaves us a ring to wear w/ 2hit and no ac. thieves already sacrafice a lot of ac and other bonuses to run w/ their dmg, as well they should, that’s the whole risk/reward of bein a thief. the problem lies in the fact that some other classes have an abundance of eq that doesn’t require them to give up ac. no risk, still big reward. i deleted the rest of the post cause i don’t wanna rag on any other classes, at least not on the crier!

again, i like the change, i just wish there was some eq for us to fall back on in order to be able to put the change to use and i look forward to seeing what builders are able to come up w/, i always love seein new eq! in the meantime i’ll just get use to stabbin like autolycos. it’ll save me a ton of money on all the poison i’m not using up by actually hitting a stab!

and to 12345 about missing w/ bros up, a thief w/ valor up hits about 90% of their stabs. i tracked vaire from the time he got valor to present and he’s right at 90%. a thief prime w/out it stabs at an 80% rate, that’s offa deju’s tracker. vaire’s sample is offa about 40k stabs so it’s a fairly accurate number.

peace out

Opps, sorry, i forgot that i could also wear a neck item for 1 more hit.

Chance of w-formed person to get hit depends on AC (as I know). So probably it would be redesigned.

Piazza has naturally -11AC and you can get one more AC point by shiftable eq. So I just wonder why th/ba/mo/cl would have worse AC then ne/dr/cl/ma??? 3x non-caster has AC worse then 4x caster.

2Krom: thanks for your help. I really appreciate you listen to all of us.

But I don’t want to start again. Probably Kida will be just my storage char for crying ‘Luck of the seven drunk gawdz’ (at least I don’t need AC for this and untill something wouldn’t changed to interesting me to play this char again).

Kida

On the plus side for the changes to stabs/valor, all the thieves that put bard in for valor can just switch to gods and start stabbing at 30-35 or so dam, on mobs that don’t splork outright the extra damage will probably make up for at least some of the whiffs.

Of course gods is pretty expensive to sing constantly on a thief, but it could be worse.

You bastards!

Gods didn’t make any difference whatsoever when I stabbed Nab in ET.

Mind if I ask what +hit Vaire was at?

I was basing this off the code Rita leaked, so its definately dated.

vaire has -5 hit!

perma suck :twisted:

for most of those stabs vaire was at +17 to hit, so fairly high. though i will admit that the addition of 3rd stab did bring his % down about a point.

With monk in classo, that should be overkill.

if you mean the +hit is overkill, that’s just what vaire has nat w/ str and tard bonuses, and his stabber, and valor adding 2. which is why nobody ever worried about making decent +hit eq. +hit never mattered b4 because natural thacos tended to be plenty to hit mobs. with all the changes lately though to mob ac’s and the way +hit affects play the eq is slightly behind the times.

indeed

So why not -10.3 instead of -10? When you get webbed, and you will, u will lose the -.3

On that same thought, valkers should be remixed also… maybe only prime warrior valkers get -8.3 while non-prime warriors settle for -7.3 and non-warriors stacked at -6.3

thoughts on this?

Well, I was referring to overkill by old standards. With the new -11 rules I haven’t even started to figure out what’s reasonable for +hit. Though its not encouraging that both Vaire and Auto, who have warrior and monk in classo are searching for more +hit gear.

the only reason vaire is worried about +hit is because now whether he lands a stab or not dpends on his +hit. i could care less about hitting a mob in a fight, since if that’s what i’m relying on i’ve already lost. and any amount of +hit i can add w/out loosing dmg i will try to do, even though he’ll probly end up at -4ac.

So why not -10.3 instead of -10? When you get webbed, and you will, u will lose the -.3 Thoughts on this?[/quote:1rcpxwza]

If you have eq to equal -10.3ac and are webbed, your AC still shows as -10.0, so this has already been addressed it seems.

so..Bards? Or should I play my necro?

Gods didn’t make any difference whatsoever when I stabbed Nab in ET.[/quote:2ma826g3]

Well that was my optimistic statement for the year, back to the real world.

Sorry Buddy :p

12345,

it was Rei, not Rita. :)

12345,

it was Rei, not Rita. :)[/quote:oezx9k3b]

Sorry, I didn’t know either of them that well :(

On a side note, Minstrel ran with -10 for the longest time. I just had recently made a -11 gear that I really was not very happy with. Not using my shofar is not worth the -1 ac.

Summarizing and adding a few of my own thoughts.

What people want:

[quote:1cfciw8u]

Better/Different: +HIT eq.

[/quote:1cfciw8u]

With recenet changes to AC (the -12 and lower, and heavy armor), and this new change to stabbing, +Hit means something.

I agree that there should be new additions with +hit being a viable addition now. I look forward to new area’s and new eq. However, I don’t agree that they should be only in the spots where there are not +DAM. I think the stabber should have another choice to make.

Before they made High AC vs. High +DAM. Now they just have a little more choice to make in how much +hit they wanna bump up to. (at the sacrifice of damage or AC).

[quote:1cfciw8u]

Bards (or possibly Bard primes) getting Heavy Armor profiiciency

[/quote:1cfciw8u]

I’m the first to say I would rather see this NOT go into effect. My biggest problem with bards in the game currently is the huge push that bards need to be a tank for some reason. Their Autoquest eq, and nearly ALL the drachma eq (or all period, I’ve not seen any other) is based on getting AC and HPs, along with charisma.

I’d much rather see ‘a choice’ here, and have some more caster oriented gear as well.

Mages get to pick between AC +spelldam and mana/spelldam rings and such for their Drachma eq, thieves now have AC+dam wrists and +2dam wrists, etc.

So I’d like to see maybe a little more versitility in the bards EQ they can select (since bards are supposed to be pretty flexible).

Yeah what the bard just said.. :shock:

I have no real use for ac, my solo -10 is more then enuff and I rarely use it now cause of my dam is so tastey! :twisted:

But think about the high school type setting.. the band kids had to be tough.. or they would just get stuffed in a locker.. especially that punk ass with the shofar! :twisted:

Bards should at least get a version of this skill.. You could even call it survival or something. If a bard can search, kick, bash, rescue, protect and climb then tell me why they cant be like the Navy or Marine musicians? They might be a fancy bandie.. but i’m sure they would beat your ass down fast. I honestly doubt the Bards would care to get to -12 etc, hell many prob would be happy with a -11 max. And that would not infringe on the Warrior prime bonus at all.

All I am saying is stop hatin the chubby kid with the tuba and give’m the props they deserve. :evil:

I was the chubby kid (with a trumpet tho).

I never got beat up either… :)

In contiuning in equalizing everything.. it’s about time some skills/spells that were multi-class be reset to prime.Warrior primes should be the only class to get triple attack.Mage primes should have haste spell and monks flurry. It is ludacris (hah hah) that a char be able to triple attack,flurry and haste at once. This greatly gives an edge that I’m sure wasn’t intended. Avatar attack could remain the same to reward someone getting that high of status. Also, necro’s should suffer a penalty when a pet makes a kill.. maybe receive 1/3 to 1/2 total experience. A necro prime with warrior,monk,mage in classo has a juju, 3 pets who have 2-3 attacks each, not including procs, triple attack,hasted and flurry with counter-attack.. lets see if my math adds up.. thats 16-18attacks per round with strike/spellattack thrown in. If that’s not overpowered that slap my head and call me Suzy.

Also, should clerics ever be changed to only be able to use holy weapon like mace etc… alignment should absolute be a factor.. a evil aligned cleric who goes good while wielding weapon should suffer a penatly/drop weapon etc..and likewise

Oh.. and psteal should be back in full

Have a nice weekend!

:twisted:

I was the chubby kid (with a trumpet tho).

I never got beat up either… :)[/quote:1zhmpewv]

Hell I was a chubby kid who played the violin, and after I beat down the first kid who gave me schidt, I never got messed with again.

So, I think everyone needs to show those musicans a lil love, they need it.

Never underestimate us musicians. Even football players back off when you bash their heads with yours :)

[quote:2a4btzsx]In contiuning in equalizing everything.. [/quote:2a4btzsx]

you ain’t doin’ shit.

I take offense to the musician thing. I have been one for 18 years and have now branched out to three different instruments. I’d like to see some football fag try and pick on this Bard. I got just the thing for those frat boy homos.

7 years as a navy musician (so far). I would say irl stats 14/00, 15 15 5 12, +2 AC Max charisma tho :wink:

[b:1eme4qsk]see!!! [/b:1eme4qsk]

this is exactly the point that I was trying to make..

you imm’s are protraying Bards to be this defenseless little girl with a piccalo,

when in reality it’s Henry Rollins with a mic stand.

I [i:1eme4qsk][b:1eme4qsk]dare[/b:1eme4qsk][/i:1eme4qsk] anyone to call him a sissy!

*argument made, point, game, match!

Oh I forgot to mention that I played starting left tackle during football season too.

Hey Tap go to a single class and mud and get banned there, were tired of your gibberish

Alias

as the mom of two budding bards (one a drummer, the other a guitar player) i have to agree: don’t fukk with bards. if the situation calls for it, they are one-hit wonders: one hit and you wonder why yer on the ground with a broken jaw and/or bloody nose. i think that after all the bullshti a musician has to put up with (being teased, picked on, etc), he’s gotta be tough enough to take what gets dished at him. not to mention that way back in the day of the bard, a lot of them traveled on foot from town to town and bar to bar. if he WASN’T tough, he’d never have any money (brigands) or be able to get from point a to point b. anywho…….flame on!

“beer and pus sy. that’s all I need.” – sean smith –> donnie darko

So yeah, love for Bard primes…please?

Like a puss in boots, they wouldn’t fight, they would steal for gold off drunks

in bars.

Much Love!!!

Go ahead and say it to my face!

AARON!!! STOP IT!!!!

you’re gonna make Will cry again!!

You should have heard him on the phone that day. I’m tellin’ you he was freaked, and for som ereason thought I knew something about how to get a motorized dildo out of a butt. I did talk him down off the ledge though. I was crackin up.

I’ll say it to your face all right, but you would be either too high or drunk

to remember.

Just like your friends stuck the dildo up your butt, when you passed out

(light weight). Then u called me crying on the phone, asking why they did

it. Which I don’t know … I don’t have any gay friends carrying dildos in

their pockets.

I’ll say it to your face all right, but you would be either too high or drunk

to remember.

[/quote:1k6wyv7s]

OR?? that’s not the Aaron I know….

I’ll say it to your face all right, but you would be either too high or drunk

to remember.

[/quote:2tx72via]

OR?? that’s not the Aaron I know….[/quote:2tx72via]

My bad “AND”

Ooo on the side note, I will be Cincinnati OH starting tomorrow (7/31) flying

back on 8/1. Any mudders out there?

I’ll also reply back to Aa, Jason, Mikey or anyone else’s smart ass comments

when I return back in Chicago!

Bitch when I go off topic. whine when I stay on topic..

I say again, it’s not fair when a pthief has to fend off 16-18 attacks when jumped. By the time you realise your’e caught, your either webbed or dead.

Just saying, less attacks would make more sense in keeping things ‘real’

side note to 13- It’s known that your’e full of hot air… you obviously play the ‘flute’

:twisted:

[code:2iril6mp]HAI

CAN HAS STDIO?

I HAS A TROLL

IM IN YR FORUM

UP TROLL!!1

IZ TROLL BIGGER THAN 10? GTFO. KTHX

KTHX

VISIBLE “FORUM HAF 2 MUCH HADES”

KTHXBYE[/code:2iril6mp]

The reason you’re scared of fighting pets is because you only play naked newbs, make a real char and see how much you care about having to toss a couple of blizzards at the start of a fight.

Sorry to disappoint but I don’t “toss”. I’m not trying to make this about me and if it swerved that way then apologies. Just added that sense some changes are being made, then perhaps these features could be reviewed and

hopefully adjusted. I’m not bashing multi-class, just offering that perhaps if certain skills/spells were more regulated to prime status, then perhaps they would be more appreciated. Done for now.. nice group on Thule for me to go

join!!! :twisted:

Tap, have you ever been deathtouched by a good monk? I bet it would be an instant death for any of your chars, not depending on the monk’s damroll even.

Tap, have you ever been deathtouched by a good monk? I bet it would be an instant death for any of your chars, not depending on the monk’s damroll even.[/quote:3gbvz8l9]

Even tho I only have grip and not touch, I’d love to be the one to choke the living snot out of him any day of the year

PLEEEEEEZE!!!!! :twisted:

Again, this is NOT about me.

Tell me no lines and keep your hands to yourself. - Georgia Satellites

once again a good thread with constructive information for AC Bards etc is ruined and turned into a feltch fest by a jerkoff that the imms are too lazy to site ban.

I recall people being site banned just cause an imm had a personal prob with them.. wtf is the deal now pansies?

oh ffs

There are several topics in this one thread…I chose a side-topic to add input

and automatically certain people want to beat on poor wee me.. well like I said, this is not about me and I’m not llooking to poke,prod anyone/clan etc etc. If your offended that much by my offering an opinion.. maybe you check yourself.

:arrow:

I don’t have a bard char but I’ve tinkered with them somewhat. While they may be some heavy-rollers ingame {ref:Minstrel}, I don’t think bards should be as tough as tonka toys that some people would like. Warriors should have the max ac because the very nature of they game play calls for it. Warrior primes should be the sought after tanks not backups. Bards have decent group songs/spells and are better served as backup tanks/group support.

Flame on

:roll:

[quote:drai3kx5]13 writes[/quote:drai3kx5]

[quote:drai3kx5]I got just the thing for those frat boy homos.[/quote:drai3kx5]

Indeed :oops:

While we in the process of making Bards not make any sense on the mud, i implore the immortals to take it a step further so that the eq for bards makes more sense.

Since a bard is going to be a tank, please change the snare drum to have it include human skin as the drum top, and cover the drums sides in razor wire. I think a shofar should now fire heat seeking nukes that will obliterate the designated tank target in one round.

Mosaix

[quote:qar9g2hx]Rynquald

Double 40 Poster

Joined: Apr 11, 2005

Posts: 120

PostPosted: Jul 26, 2007 - 07:31 PM Post subject: Reply with quote

I’ve always been for casters being casters, but not like this.

How about nc/nc chars being capped at 300 mana? Twisted Evil[/quote:qar9g2hx]

The only glitch in that thoery is that you can’t buy AC at 5x40. I’d like a better boost in mana regen for caster primes.

Got it!

Again, this is NOT about me.

Tell me no lines and keep your hands to yourself. - Georgia Satellites[/quote:1rk8c67c]

BUZZ! You forgot the words! it goes like this:

“She said don’t hand me no lines and keep your hands to yourself.”

get yer quotes correct, you dumbshit - that’s what google is there for.

“you’re gonna die here, you know.” –han solo –> return of the jedi

Of course I’d rather see something like:

Wa prime gets a bonus of 1.0 to their AC

Wa in class-order gets a bonus of .5 to their AC

Otherwise, we need some better AC eq to reach -13 and -14.

Anything over -13 is going to be overpowered. Unless if youhit -14,-15 range which can be knocked down everytime u suffer an extremely powerful attack.

Remember, we don’t want warriors getting overpowered again.

Again? when the hell were they overpowered? Man I can’t believe I missed it. Must have been before my time, because when I started there really weren’t any tanks playing, which is why I started playing one.

there are no overpowered classes imo, but then again I don’t know a damn thing.

Alias

Whoa, easy there big fella.. I may have overstated some inside info. It’s happened several times and well within your time here. While it’s true there are no overpowered classes per se, it’s just some people have ‘mastered’ a certain class-type ex.-mage wink wink and made it look too easy to a non-mage caster-type. IMHO, the classes are very much balanced, it just takes really exploring your options and realizing your potential instead of getting frustrated abd trying to blame your shortcoming on another classo.

ps- Sorry Firebrand but you must have never been to one of their concerts. When they are lit, they tend to stray off chorus and mix-match. Their drummer has a neat trick where he throws the drumstick down and kicks it back up to catch it without missing a beat.

hugs and kisses

:idea:

I thought it was ‘she said “dont gimme no lines and keep yo hands to yoself”’

[img:bhaxv6fs]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/greendevil74/39941becauseheisaattentzi7.jpg[/img:bhaxv6fs]

At first I really liked the change. I got mad when casters tanking over tanks. So, for the most part, I like the change. But I did notice a lot of chars with bard in their classo that has made them weak. They use their ac and their undeads to kill decent sized mobs, and it’s got me thinking bards should get -11.

Now some said they thought that monks should get -11 as well, but seeing as how monks are high damage, low ac chars anyway (at least they’re supposed to be) I really don’t see a monk needing -11 ac.

I hope the immortals consider -11 bards. And remember, this is coming from a tank so… dunno if that’s going to sway any immortal minds up there in neverneverland. :)~

-Toxis

Orrrr, make a bard spell/song that helps them out.

shrugs…

If you gave bards -11 then you would have to give thieves same. I think while the change caught alot of people by suprise, it would seem more suited that warrior prime get >-12 warrior secondary <-12 and warrior tert/quad at <-11. That would leave the <-10 restriction for non-warrior classo’s. I don’t see why bards should get a push over other classes. Monk’s should get and do I believe better hp bonus/regen but they shouldnt be allowed -11 by any stretch. Same for other restrictions for other classes. The Imm’s have given a very satisfactory explanation for the change and it seems best to adapt and move on.

:wink:

[img:2vd902io]http://www.reasinternational.com/blog/uploads/shutup.jpg[/img:2vd902io]

Let’s not start this again. If you feel a need to spam/troll, please keep it on the right thread.

:roll:

[img:2yxby970]http://www.nataliedee.com/050407/shut-up-baby.jpg[/img:2yxby970]

If you can’t be civil, at least control the profanity please. :?

GFY. :twisted:

Monk’s should get and do I believe better hp bonus/regen but they shouldnt be allowed -11 by any stretch. Same for other restrictions for other classes. The Imm’s have given a very satisfactory explanation for the change and it seems best to adapt and move on. :wink:[/quote:1zl6ricl]

You’re an idiot.

That’s the best you can do? You, sir, lack credibilty. You choose to attack me instead of staying on topic. Fact is, you realise the change was correct and can’t find a good argument against it. Flame me if you like, but I’m attempting to stay on topic.. if you wish to be immature, go right ahead. :roll:

[img:16e7ctwb]http://www.notacon.org/g/stickers/goaway.jpg[/img:16e7ctwb]

My sentiments exactly.

[quote:20kxcr1b]

If you gave bards -11 then you would have to give thieves same.[/quote:20kxcr1b]

What’s the basis for this argument, they both have steal ?

That’s the best you can do? You, sir, lack credibilty.[/quote:2574xex8]

That’s the most ironic statement I’ve read in a while.

Let me tell you what you’re doing wrong… For starters, you’re flipping sides too often. When someone posts as a troll, you act like the reasonable one, when someone tries to be reasonable, you act like a troll. It’s transparent and lame. You’re level of schizophrenia is so extreme there’s no possible way anyone can seriously buy into the illusion you’re trying to create.

Your arguments lack intelligence. Often, you give the impression that you’ve never seriously played the game. I understand that the boards are entertaining and they let you type stuff here, but believe it or not, most the people here play the game too. It gives us a common factor to speak intelligently about. When you talk out of your ass its dreadfully obvious.

And, as has been pointed out, no one likes you. Not because its off topic, but because of the previous two paragraphs. You have nothing intelligible to offer and no reasonable method of presenting what incoherent thoughts you do have. Every time you post, someone gets a little dumber. Usually you.

So, to stay on topic… No one likes you, please go away.

[quote:1h3i8m6h]You have nothing intelligible to offer and no reasonable method of presenting what incoherent thoughts you do have. Every time you post, someone gets a little dumber. Usually you. [/quote:1h3i8m6h]

yeah, pretty much

[quote:133w1ebo]What’s the basis for this argument, they both have steal ?[/quote:133w1ebo]

He lost steal now what?

I think Tap must be….Do I….I think….

I DO smell a…

“[img:133w1ebo]http://faroutshirts.com/images/soreLoser-pnged.png[/img:133w1ebo]”

Warriors being mostly brawn and monks able to deflect/dodge attacks better, bards are more like their thief brethren. They manage to travel from town to town,bar fights etc etc by avoiding conflict at all cost. Sure, they most hold their own but bards are known to barter to avoid trouble when travelling and most bar fights are caused by a charming bard to draw attention from his/her co-horts who would pick the bar clean. I’m not going as far as calling bards ‘fruity’ but come on, bards have to rely on their wit to cause mayhem/dodge direct physical combat not their toughness to take damage.

I really doesn’t matter if you like tap and his views or not, the immortals did the right thing in not treating bards like non-prime warriors. there’s no way that a bard should be allowed -11 over monks or even thieves. forget about any historical attributes bards may have had and just look at the way this game treats the classes. bards are just casters w/ some hps. they have more spells than necros or druids and their skilset looks like a thieves w/ astrology and spellcraft added in. they get mana every level in all classo slots except fourth. they are treated as casters in nearly every other aspect of sloth.

the main reason why bards are so vocal about their ac is because it’s mostly the 3xcaster with bard thrown in who are making the noise. i know that’s why i made mandos w/ bard. he’ld get hps and some fighting skills but still get mana and the ability to wear lots of ac eq. the bard is the best of both worlds class, except now they wanna show just the fighting half and claim they deserve ac. on the whole though bards are more caster than anything else.

now i know monks also get mana for the first two slots, for all 1.5 spells they have. look at their skillset though and it mirrors that of a warriors, and i still don’t think monks should get the ac either.

say what you want about the changes. but the imms were decisive and have stood by it. i can respect that if nothing else. peace out.

I have to say I pretty much totally disagree Heck. Thieves are a leather class and always have been, they are quickly in and out, as you well know. AC actually doesn’t benefit them much at all compared to putting the dmg in the spots where ac goes. They don’t have rescue, and there is no prime thief “ac eq” in game. Monks are closely related, just ask splork. I lobbied for a long time for more ac for monks, shoulderguards..something. He said unequivocally that monks are not made to have good ac, hence the bamboo leggings. Bard’s, however, come right out of the box with the 2nd most NC natural hps, the rescue skill, the protect skill, and their prime class autoquest item is tank EQ. Bards have 1.7 leggings. The only other class that has that is Warrior (we’re leaving out the carbos since they aren’t specifically class restricted other than avatar iirc). I realize that you don’t have a Bard prime or a character with bard that would be counting on -11 and taking hits for people as a ‘job’ so this may not be as personal to you as it is to me. Blackula is the first of his kind, the all new_class tank. Bard Monk Druid Necro. I have hps, some dmg reduction, fluidity, counter, ogham’s and used to be ac. I was going to have a hard enough time trying to open people’s eyes and have them try something different, not it’s impossible and I just had a 3x40 restroactively wasted for me. I would like an imm’s response to this please, if possible. Ex post facto nerfs like this are the single most frustrating aspect of this game.

Also, steal is no longer ingame and Bards roll dex first. Please tell me how dex affects anything other than armor class for them.

Its funny to me to watch what people care about, and how it effects what they say when they post here.

I suppose its dumb for a bard to roll dex first. Maybe a bard should roll wis first since the char would benefit from the mana regen and the cost to sing songs. Since thats what a Bard actually does…sing songs.

From playing a Cleric Prime, and being told all the time to quit complaining, stuff it, etc. Im going to give you crybabies back the best advice I have gotten for my poor decision to build a Cleric Prime.

“Build another Character, and start over”, “Wont take long to level up a new char.”, “its easy to get exp and make a new char”

So go forth and follow your own advice if you dont like how a Bard, Thief or whatever plays or has been nerfed.

Broc

I guess I like the change, even if I don’t like the way it was implemented.

[quote:2tsgr8g3]Blackula is the first of his kind, the all new_class tank. Bard Monk Druid Necro. I have hps, some dmg reduction, fluidity, counter, ogham’s and used to be ac.[/quote:2tsgr8g3]

I wonder though that Blackula might still make a nice tank character. Each of those attributes you list will help. You could also add wraithform to the list. There’s no other tank character that has each of those. We know most tanks skip Druid, maybe the fluidity (and greater fluidity) will make up for losing heavy armor? I’d bet he still will be an effective tank, and will surprise most of the players here.

I guess this is the roughest part of the change, that people who lose -11 will certainly get hit more often and take more damage. I hope this nerf can be at least partially reduced by swapping out that AC gear for something with other mods. Maybe +HPs? I bet we could find 200 - 300 hps for 1.0 AC.

Charles

[edit: typo]

-1.0 ac = 200-300hp???

Chucky the most hp i believe on eq is 30?

Tiny Jade Rings = -0.0 -int +30hp x2 = +60 taking away -.8 from fingers.

That gives another slot for -.2 for +40hp.

Actually it does affect one of my chars quite a lot. mandos whole purpose is to stand around long enough to let his pets kill the mob. now that he dropped back down to -10 it’s quite a bit more difficult. so this is a fairly personal change. i’ve invested a bit more time into mandos than blackula so don’t try to pull that card please. as far as prime eq most all of it is quite outdated and i can pick a few items that make no sense for their class. bards are not armored fighters, plain and simple. as for what stat they roll first, pretty weak argument. you say monks are all about dmg, yet they roll con? if warriors are sposed to get beat up why str? and thieves have dex first for themselves too, they must be all about ac!

i still say that a bard with their 61 spells and songs, before avatar more closely resemble a caster, but i spose that’s just me. yes they get nice hps and ac gear, but i suggest we quit mentioning this b4 they are adjusted by the higher ups. bards are a great support class, the best in most cases.

i’m sorry that blackula will never be your ultimate tank. but i guess it just wasn’t meant to be. roll with the punches, it’s what we do. peace out.

Well, I was talking fast Leaf and I hope there have been additions to the eq that I haven’t seen in the last couple months. Even so, with eq like obsidian bracers, sapphire bands of defense, and a helm of radiance that’s already 84 hps for +.5 AC. Double that for 168 hps for +1.0 AC.

I was hoping that someone more familiar with tank eq would be able to generate better ideas, but maybe those items are better than other AC / HP gear.

I’m not justifying any of your arguements or trying to justify the admin’s actions in deciding the AC caps, this is just a brief history of Bard (from my POV and does not express any opinions from the other admins).

When Tower made the new classes it was unsure what role Bard would play, necro, monk, and druid were pretty simple, but Bard was a hybrid class and anyone who play tested the new classes is prolly quite aware that many changes were made to bard before it ever went live as ppl tried to figure out its role. A lot of high AC eq was intiially put into the game for Bard because of that hybrid-class mind-set.

Since then many changes have taken place with warrior that has made warrior a more destinct class into itself with a few more skills that set it apart from the other classes as a 1-1 fighter. Thus warrior has seperateed itself from Bard quite substantionally from the time bard was added.

I perfer not to have stats on eq removed or changed after it is put ingame as that causes much more hassle than its worth (except in extreme cases). Bard finally settled into a role as a group-oriented class and the spells and songs in the class’s abilities is aimed at this orientation.

As far as all the arguements go for how tough a bard is, MY personal vision of a bard is Geoffery Chauser, one of the most prolific ‘bards’ of all time. I just cant imagine him running around in heavy plate mail carrying spiked shields and bloody boots and telling stories and inspiring morale.

Yes there are some ‘bards’ who are tough and could kick ass, but many arguements could be made that a thief should be strong to be able to steal bags full of loot, while we’re at it, mages ad necromancers should all have con as their last stat because how hard would you have to punch David Copperfield or Harry Hudini or Merlin before they crumbled to the ground? Or let’s say a necro/bard.. logically would you be inspired by a person followed around by an army of rotting corpses and screaming phantoms?

All arguements make sense from any 1 single POV, but RL isnt a single POV and neither is this mud.

This is my 2 cents… carry on

Aka

Does this mean you scrubs will stop making Minstrel clones. You have already determined that bards suck. The funniest thing about the new ac change is that Minstrel ran with -10 and shofar up until the recent ac changes. I then tried out -11 gear and really didn’t care for it much compared to holding my instrument. Anyways now that bards are nerfed maybe you guys can come up with a unique class to play instead of trying to emulate everyone else.

[b:2k2gf6an]Or let’s say a necro/bard.. logically would you be inspired by a person followed around by an army of rotting corpses and screaming phantoms? [/b:2k2gf6an][/color:2k2gf6an] Aka[/quote:2k2gf6an]

LMFAO! depends if she is single & asian.. :twisted:

the mental image alone is fantastic… for some reason I think of Shirley Manson from Garbage tho….

[b:1xns8cfu]Or let’s say a necro/bard.. logically would you be inspired by a person followed around by an army of rotting corpses and screaming phantoms? [/b:1xns8cfu][/color:1xns8cfu] Aka[/quote:1xns8cfu]

LMFAO! depends if she is single & asian.. :twisted:

the mental image alone is fantastic… for some reason I think of Shirley Manson from Garbage tho….[/quote:1xns8cfu]

that’s odd, my mental image was of hillary clinton

Does this mean you scrubs will stop making Minstrel clones.[/quote:1u8qhb2w]

I built a Minstrel clone for a very basic reason. Its the best combo I can think of for leading and its a hell of a lot of fun to lead with. I probably have more fun with that character than any other one I’ve ever played and I’ve never come close to standing in front.

As far as Blackula, my tank ran -10 until about 10 Avatar. 40 Avatar if you consider that -11 was broken, and even then I frequently ran -10 for additional damage and just didn’t tell anyone.

My classo was built to take damage and not care. You have the additional benefit of wraithform, so I wouldn’t sound the death bell just yet.

BTW, Medios was 7th Th/Ma (only according to Hall of Lame)

Now let me please emulate you, Mister ‘with instrument’ :D

Kida/Edd

I didn’t realize Mandos was running -11. What I really meant was from a tanking perspective. For thieves dex is backstab/steal, their main shit, so they roll it first. I agree warriors should roll con and monks should roll str. In fact a lot of the classo stat-order combinations are a little silly, but like you said, roll with the punches. Like Mike said, it does pretty well guarantee that you’re gonna use you’re instrument. As far as Bit goes, anyone who can look at eq can realize this is a -10 dmg setup (or hprgn or whatever you liked) and not be fooled. I was a girdle away from -11 before avatar and had planned on doing my solo damage with followers and gods. C’est le vie I guess.

Now that the dust seems to be settling, perhaps we could have some influx of some new spells/skills/songs to add ingame. Not to beef up the loss/difference but hopefully give a new avenue of exploring/use of classo’s.

:lol:

Heh, no one said I was trying to fool anyone. But I wouldn’t underestimate fluidity and wraithform. Espeically when you can create your own charms. Normally I’d tell you that counter isn’t as reliable as parry.. but with ograms, that’s a tough call.

I dont feel as bad I guess.

I rather think a necro bard warrior is a cool idea. I think of a Lord Soth, singing with some banshees all night, cursed to relive those moments of his downfall. He also has some death knight followers (see the painting “lord soth’s charge”). I can see him singing ‘gods of war’ to motivate his knights. Even further, some of the newer D20 rules let you use bard abilities with other perform skills like dance, poetry, etc. A death knight giving a rousing speech to motivate an army of undead (rather like braveheart)…well, it just rocks.

So, my plan for an undead Warrior/Bard/Necro/Cleric doesn’t really fit the general ideas for Bards…I can accept that. I’ve also played a Cl/Th here and a Th/Cl, which doesn’t fit most people’s ideas of clerics (or thieves). To me, that’s one more Advantage of Sloth, with a capital A. I guess those Cl/Th characters are one reason I dislike our alignment system so much.

I guess my personal vision of a Bard prime is rather like “Taliesin” from the Stephen Lawhead books. He’s a strong character, in a great set of books. A lot of the Arthurian knights could be considered Warrior/Bard mixes, but I prefer the more celtic view of the Bard. That’s another reason I love the classic Minstrel classo so much (though I haven’t made a copy yet)…Bard, Druid, and Necro all fit so well into a celtic story.

Anyways now that bards are nerfed maybe you guys can come up with a unique class to play instead of trying to emulate everyone else.[/quote:42m58rpm]

Yeah. I’m sick of people copying my Wa Cl. That was MY idea. :shock:

Anyways now that bards are nerfed maybe you guys can come up with a unique class to play instead of trying to emulate everyone else.[/quote:1vqhwice]

Yeah. I’m sick of people copying my Wa Cl. That was MY idea. :shock:[/quote:1vqhwice]

pretty sure it wasnt…then again, it wasnt mine either.

[b:2aaw78cj]Avatar wrote:[/b:2aaw78cj][quote:2aaw78cj]

A lot of the Arthurian knights could be considered Warrior/Bard mixes[/quote:2aaw78cj]

[b:2aaw78cj]I could imagine Charles’s group and him tanking…

I’m sure it would resemble Sir Robin![/b:2aaw78cj] :twisted:

[img:2aaw78cj]http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/7659/sirrobinpart3picxh7.jpg[/img:2aaw78cj]

How can anyone be called ‘Sir’ while have a cock painted on his shield?

[img:1gwnyx2o]http://home.earthlink.net/~althalus/images/primitivesJ.jpg[/img:1gwnyx2o]

Does this mean you scrubs will stop making Minstrel clones. Anyways now that bards are nerfed maybe you guys can come up with a unique class to play instead of trying to emulate everyone else.[/quote:6qxnp82s]

Just want to be like Mike!

Yeah lets all re-invent the wheel, Minstrel has an awesome classo and When I feel like playing a bard it will be the one I made like his. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Look how many wa/mo/cl/ne there are…..

I’m proud to be a scrub.

Alias

I’m proud to be a scrub.

Alias[/quote:2ovmq6go]

Rep to you.

[quote:3o4t6gj1]Tap

PostPosted: Aug 07, 2007 - 03:12 PM Post subject: RE: Who cares?

Laughing[/quote:3o4t6gj1]

Bard Skill

Distract

This allows a bard to draw attention to himself perhaps even taking a hit or two in the process . Only 1 bard in a group could actually distract which itself last thru battle. Any other bards attempting to distract would fail miserably. Of course, when said bard happens to wind up dead, a new “victim” could try to distract in order to provide contiuning assistance to the tank and/or buy time for a recall, etc etc

aka rescue? Kinda sounds like a ‘skill’ to give a bard all the glory and none of the risk hehe.

More like secondary point position. The bard could in fact be at bottom of group and still take a few hits aka 2.tanking. More or less, would just displace some hits from 1.tank and instead of always connecting with 2/3.tank, the bard could offer to take some of the damage.

prob a bad idea in retrospect :roll:

[/quote:3s0w6wi0]

Hey! Your the one that talked me into playing the classo when i was playing tetsulunathaya, years ago :)

But I know how you feel, seeing so many of the same classo about (and everyone passing me, damn I level slow :P)

Though with hindsight I’d much rather have been a Ba/Dr/Cl/Ma then Minstrel’s classo. Nothing wrong with it, but that’d be more to my preferences.

several variations could be pretty powerful imo

several variations could be pretty powerful imo[/quote:3i1rab12]

There can be only one notorious Bard on sloth.

There can be only one notorious Bard on sloth.[/quote:3awu0vgf]

you mean Taliesin right? :twisted:

There can be only one notorious Bard on sloth.[/quote:1w2twvgc]

i’m pretty sure there’s no ‘behead’ skill for bards…

True dat but they get purge at level 41 :P

but cant purge a player till 44 :P

Yeah, BUT they can trans a blasted kobold :roll:

Been away for a few weeks holiday …. wow what a huge change to come back to !!!

First up I (Thraxas Ne Cl Dr Ba) am 3xca wth ba thrown in just so I could get to -11, the aim of this was to be able to solo with pets, survive long enough with -11 gfluid aegis and wform for the pets to kill the mob. This has worked well and I’ve enjoyed running this way.

This change therefore adversely affects me and if I’d known about it would have made me choose a different classo.

I’m not interested in having a cohort of different chars to play, I like to sti ck with one, my previous char (Elsie) I stuck with for far too long even though I couldn’t make it work half as well as I can make thraxas work, so the if you don’t like it make a ew char argument dosen’t work here.

This all said I can see the change makes sense in a perverted sort of way, it hurts me so I feel I should raise complaint, and it does feel like a waste of the time effort and coins I put into getting -11 eq together, but then I can’t pretent I didn’t know changes might happen.

I left sloth for a long time because I hated the ptheft here, they removed it so I came back. Now they’ve nerfed my chars ac, as far as I can see thats one change I like, one I dislike … seems fair enough, (-10 webbed is workable) I just wish I had some decent blast power …

I[/quote:1j4pmkf1]

Thraxas, sorry, but I think that quoted fragment is just the essence of what you wrote here.

It would be argumentative that -11 and -10 are really that much of a difference beyond bragging rights. At most, you might have had to adapted to your method of attacking but I highly doubt you would have been exempt from cycling the same MOB’s you did before… maybe not as as many before regen but none the less. That IMHO and I’m sure somone would eagerly argue differently. Side note while most pthieves were/are not malicious, apologies for the one or two that might have ruined your gametime here. My personal feelings non-withstanding is that pthieving has it’s place as long as it doesn’t resort to ‘bullying’.

But that’s just me :twisted:

I think [/quote:2arem13y]

. . .

I[/quote:13v4vn4p]

Thraxas, sorry, but I think that quoted fragment is just the essence of what you wrote here.[/quote:13v4vn4p]

Apology accepted :)

… but seriously I’m not sure what you mean, unless you’re sying that my post was a purely ‘I’ perspective, i.e. what I think not anyone else … if so then duh, who elses views could I express? So what if I’m alone in my views …

this brings a whole new meaning to ‘a jury of my peers’

Apology accepted :)

Do you think immorts should care about making the game easier or harder for a certain group of players when they make some change?

IMHO they should only care about making the game more fun.

[quote:3n1scrsm]IMHO they should only care about making the game more fun.[/quote:3n1scrsm]

That’s a pretty simplistic view. If one FunWatt = 1 minute of 1 person having 1 ounce of fun, then Yes the immorts might try to maximize the amount of FunWatts generated. In reality, there are a lot of aspects to having fun, and different people have fun in different ways. Sometimes, to help people have fun, you might have to adjust how easy or hard some part of the game is.

Hi Coltrane, we are all a certain group of players. I think the one you’re referring to happens to be the smart/seasoned vets, you’ll be part of that

one eventually too. Don’t be so quick to write people off like Charles. He

has some opinions that I don’t agree with, but he also has the benefit of around 10 years of experience too.

you know, as much as we all bitch about changes to the game, some pleasant, some not so pleasant (depending on your point of view) we all eventually come to accept them as part of gameplay. so let’s just absorb/accept this latest change and go back to having fun again

“i’ve been frozen for 30 years. i’ve got to see if my bits and pieces are still working.” – austin powers –> austin powers: international many of mystery

and one thing i still think applies still after all these years….

stfu rebel :twisted:

I like seeing the discussion and I enjoy participating if I have been affected by some change. I think the mortals have had quite a lot of influence in these situations. There have been several changes that were implemented differently after discussion on the crier. I think we’d all agree that this cooperation has helped to build a better game. That’s all a compliment to our Imms and Admin, who listen to us and try to find the good advice admidst the cursing, complaining, and threatening to quit that can be so prevalent.

If we all bring different opinions, so much the better. I’ll admit that I’m not always right, and in hindsight I really like some of the changes that I might have disliked at the time. That’s one of the reasons that, even if I disagree, I try to disagree in a civil manner. I hope these differences in opinion don’t prevent me from being friends with anyone.

Autolycos, stab him in the face already.

:twisted: