This can even be a drachma or autoquest skill. A warrior spell that allows for a mount would be a nice feature. Horse wouldnt be able to fight, just transport and help charge. Like those pets that Impz and Firebrand have it could just go away if provoked. Or possibly have up to 100hp and die, but not enough to fight. Horse might increase something with avatar levels. Mount obeys every time unlike sheep that roam away taking you from group. Call followers would bring mount, but most wont follow. Any mount could be water breathed and taken out of its environment, but underwater mounts die out of water. Any -hit proc from mount is overrode by blind, +hit bonus arent overriden by grace.
Example
“TAME BEAST”
Usage: cast ’tame’
Accumulative: No
Duration: 2 days
Level: Avatar-Warrior 1
Save: -
Spellbook: a box of horse tackle ,with a note
Min Mana: 50
Nothing serves the honorable warrior like his trusted steed. As such, every warrior must stay versed in the art of taming wild mounts. With the proper knowledge, skill, and of course gear anyone can find a suitable beast to ride. Environment plays a crucial role in whats available to tame and as such the pegasus wont find you underwater.
Types of mounts
Lvl 1
pack mule - 250mv (anywhere outdoors)
seahorse - 350mv wont allow currents to effect, travels easily underwater(Only underwater)
siberian tiger -150mv +1 hit perm sneak(cold or plains only)
Lvl 10
centipede - 300mv gives rider darksight/darkness,perm sneak (only inside dark room)
camel - 300mv , needs to drink from spring then spits on mob -1 to hit for duration, blind overrides (Desert only)
boar - 200mv boar snorting alerts mobs, boar increases frenzy/rampage effects (outdoors)
Lvl 20
elephant 400mv charge dmg bonus(Desert, woods only)
poison frog - 250mv gives rider poison immunity, frog can go on land or water with ease. (summoned in woods or underwater)
steed - 350mv , follows if you dismount (anywhere outdoors)
Lvl 30
pegasus 500mv perm fly, +1hit(group effect) (Must be outdoors, not underwater)
polar bear 400mv resist cold(group effect) (must be in ice)
scorpion 400mv resist fire(group effect) (must be in desert)
Lvl 40
warhorse 500mv(good mvregen, +2 hit +5hpr, possibly charge damage bonus,follows if u dismount(Any terrain except underwater)
giant centipede 400mv (good mv regen)gives riders darksight/darkness,perm sneak,rides 2 ppl(only inside dark room)
dolphin 500mv wont allow currents to effect(sonar +1 hit group effect, nose bash could give -2hit, blind overrides)
Forgot to mention, person must be mounted to be effected, except ones with group effect. This keeps someone from benefiting from the mount during stab/grip runs. Once you dismount effect is gone, etc. If anyone likes this I can come up with some more material.
Mike
very cool idea…..
I like the idea, unless we mean for it to be warrior-specific. I’ve always liked mounts - everyone seems to enjoy playing with them. Instead of restricting the discussion to just warriors, I’d try to think of how other classes might use mounts differently based on their abilities.
Warrior - adjust warrior skills like Charge, …, …, to work while mounted.
Cleric - supplicate could bring mounts with special abilities, etc.
Necro - could animate skeletal mounts, or summon nightmares, etc.
Druids - summon exotic mounts through awaken? could perform as a mount for other characters?
Thief -
Monk -
Bard - could use exotic mounts to inspire followers / teammates?
Mage -
I think this is a cool idea :) especially because warriors don’t have so much specials as other classes (in my opinion as wa prime :)
[quote:2tn5zafs]Druids - summon exotic mounts through awaken? could perform as a mount for other characters? [/quote:2tn5zafs]
Like a druid could have certain mountable shift forms? I’ve allways wanted to see that :)
And nods, the spell is a very nice idea.
I think this is a cool idea :) especially because warriors don’t have so much specials as other classes (in my opinion as wa prime :)[/quote:2uta3fl9]
Stomp and deathblow are both very cool. Heavy hitting too.
I disagree on deathblow I dont think its all that good.if solo it can do some damage but in a group it helps maybe 1 round of combat, would like to see it upgraded to maybe work from the time the mob goes to awful.
Even if we don’t increase the actual deathblow ability, maybe we could add a condition message to the list. Something that’s worse than awful and means that a deathblow would probably work would be useful. That, or remove the lag from a failed deathblow? A message like, “You realize that a deathblow would not be effective at this point.” or similar?
deathblow is cool
warriors are viable these days
warriors are overrated.
they are only useful as a meatshield :twisted:
[img:2laqnh11]http://www.treatyoffrancis.com/images/middlefingerkid.jpg[/img:2laqnh11]
Alias, some times it helpfull in solo also, harsh thing live fat mobs in awfull cond due to mana and hp shortage ( try solo fire machine or fallon or something thair size) Not saying its crusual skill for warrior(cant use it, not working with some swords) but something additional
Err in groups its good for subdue mobs:)
I got a suggestion for warriors: how about giving us fight xps for deathblow? Don’t know why we don’t get them, but as far as I can tell we don’t.
The most obvious improvement for warriors is making broadside work
against the appropriate mobs. Since a lot of mobs in game don’t have
the correct height/weight settings, couldn’t broadside just be changed
to be a function of species?
Some fixes incor:
deathblow changed so you get credit for the kill, xp, etc.
broadside changed to work against all members of certain species that ought to be generally the right size
group protect gibberish bug should be fixed
moved gorge to warrior 26 where it should be (from mage 26)
I’m not sure if this is in game or not …
But there should be a skill “auto” for warriors when using a weapon that
allows them to use any weapon two-handed. They just simple remove their
shields and maybe get +5 +5.
I believe when using a 2-handed weapon now allows more damage but
we don’t know how much. So if a war is using valor and is a single handed
sword, remove their shield it should become an auto 2-handed weapon of
DOOM!!! Most warriors use a shield of -1.0 to -1.2 so they would have to
sac a whole AC point for more damage, hence a +5 +5 increase.
A ‘sheath’ skill that allows you to put a weapon-type into a non-inventory slot while fighting, so it cant be stolen; if you switch weapons during combat, you sheath the current weapon, and if theres a weapon already sheathed, it gets wielded(or bumped to inventory to be wielded quickly); or for thief/monks who like to lead with a stab, then go bare-handed, your weapon would be in a safe place, and you wouldn’t have to flee/diseng to remove a robe to get a weapon, or leave it vulnerable in your inventory-maybe for warriors, thieves(and possibly bards for their slight-of-hand)…
on another thread I cant find, someone mentioned mounts:
this could be a mount or probably a druid form–Giant Earthworm
-det invis, sense, infra, dsight
-‘mass squirm’!=this would free an ENTIRE group of webs, tendrils, ‘pods,
etc, infinitum, ad nauseum…that would be kewl…
-(?)burrow(?) like an underground shadowwalk in the appropriate
environment
Shazuko Roku Ryuu
<Chaos>
Hey Shazuko, not a bad idea. However I would say that this would help
monks and thiefs more then Warrior. With all the new skills, most Wa/Mo
use their Valor instead of bare-hands. (cause of AC)
Shazuko, I like the sheath idea. To have a secondary weapon available to switch to on the go would be nice without leaving the other in a location that is easily pthieved while still having easy access to it. Great idea. Hope the immorts will run with this one.
[img:32r3m0cp]http://www.treatyoffrancis.com/images/middlefingerkid.jpg[/img:32r3m0cp]
laff… a stabbing tank…
HAHAHAHA!!
WTF is next eh?
A talking Weasel?????? :twisted:
or an automatic lycos..which is what some sort of web search from 96?
or an automatic lycos..which is what some sort of web search from 96?[/quote:33lilcgb]
nod nod
i replaced Webcrawler & Hotbot :twisted:
I was just thinking of webcrawler when i was writing that :)
and fuck jeeves.
Seems like it’d be fairly easy to do, or could be anyway. If you made a clasp for the belt, boot, etc that was a container for a weapon, like the containers we have for poison, keys, iouns, etc.
attach sheath belt
You attach a sword sheath to a belt of vitality.
attach sheath belt
You attach a dagger sheath to some black orcskin boots.
sheath valor belt
You sheath a Sword of Valor at your waist.
draw kris boot
You pull an ebony kris from your boot.
…. would be pretty cool.
Then we could see what the voices in Kj’s head think of use a main-gauche.
Hmm, and a quest for the valor sheath.
Couple of non-prime warrior suggestions (since kjartan asked for some) - and I’m not sure how useful my ideas are:
Flashstroke - similiar to monk’s stun but does a small amount of damage along with chance to blind
Dent - usable only on armored mobs - permablinds them (dents their helmet shut) - not sure how useful this could be…
Choke - with a flailable weapon - attempt to entangle mob’s limb/neck/mob itself with a whip or chain of some sort… but done while in battle - like the tangle vine proc
Enrage - in-battle skill (like bloodrage) but acts like a minor haste like maybe 1 extra attack per 3 rounds?
Lunge - would be a nice way to start a fight - maybe like 1/2 of a backstab or charge, but in the front instead of the back
Just some suggestions… flame away. :o
Another possibility,
The ability to dual wield weapons.
This could entail adding extra attack(s) when using 2 weapons, with the number of attacks going up as warrior skill increases.
Yeah I know this would mean sacrificing the ac from a shield, but sometimes this could be worth it. Plus more hits per round means less rounds to get hit back.
Banedon
Offtopic - I feel so cheated when someone posts under Zam’s picture!
Offtopic - I feel so cheated when someone posts under Zam’s picture![/quote:2q32cfog]
My apologies. I didn’t know that anyone was using that pic, I just saw one I liked that I felt fit my character. It has been changed tho.
Banedon
trying this again, seeing as how the last time i posted on this thread, the msg mysteriously didn’t post.
shield rush - works sort of like charge, but instead of using your weapon, you get in blunt force dmg (shazuko has suggested this one more than once)
weapon of choice - choose one weapon the char uses most frequently and get bonus with that weapon…can be declared at any point in the char’s career, but usually done by lev 21 prime
weapon specialization - prereq w.o.c., improved version of above, usually by 3x40
weapon mastery - prereq weapon spec, improved version of weapon spec, attained in av levs
item: sword breaker….when wielded, this has potential to break opponent’s weapon
i had a little more description in the first post, but we will see if this one actually stays here
rebs
I like the weapon specialization ideas. I think it would be neat to change the way warrior skills are restricted now and instead restrict some to the weapon class you’ve specialized with. For example, broadside requires a sword of some type, but if you’ve specialized with spear why couldn’t you restrict the skill to spear instead. Also, I think it’d be a good idea to be able to change this after the fact, but it shouldn’t be real easy. A autoquest chain could be the key, preventing people from changing real often but allowing for some change during the evolution of a character.
For my own suggestion, I’d like some skill to help make trip an option during solo fights. Currently, trip / bash / stomp almost work during groups, but it’s near impossible to use when soloing. I’m not sure technically what can be done, but some skill that improves the chance of tripping if the warrior is the only PC in the room might work. That, or some skill that warriors can enable/disable that automatically tries to push back down a mob that’s attempting to stand. I’m not sure how this currently works, I’ve seen that this does happen which is nice in groups, but it doesn’t happen enough during solo.
Charles
c ‘grease’ target kinda helps keep the mob down….not to mention it is hilarious as hell watching the slipping messages. if i am hitting a mob that is going to be a longer fight than stab/wind/wind then i bring in my wa skills, otherwise it is not worth the lag to use them unless grouped
These are my thoughts thus far, flame on. Only warriors skills today.
I think we need to work on skills that dont mirror other class skills. Giving warriors something like haste, or backstab just takes away from other classes. We dont want warriors to have duplicates of the other classes “good skills”.
Im all about mounts!!
The sheath idea is really cool for stopping pthieves, but the lack of them really makes the skill a wash.
Skills like trip and stomp were designed for grouping, sitting mobs dont cast much and flail around alot, solo would be overpower. However adding other skills that combo with bash/stomp would be very cool. The bash/stomp combo has already set this up for future skills. Then warriors dont just spam in kick, or bash. An alert warrior could see that x mob is bashed, then stomped and add in the next combo move for more dmg. It would be hard to trigger since you dont know what level the combo is in. If you trigger to stomp on bash, then you obviously cant hit the 3rd or 4th move.
Dual wield is a cool idea but again, if a dmg based char like Medios gets
ahold of 2 weapons its way too powerful for the -1 point of ac. There is however other dual styles like sword and dagger. In reality sword and dagger can even use a small buckler. In this instance well say that no shield can be used. With dagger as main weapon, stabbing can still be done, sword attacks would be 1/2 attacks at base roll only. So lets say Medios has 5 attacks and is wielding a bolt and some random 3d5 +1 +1 sword weapon with no shield. I could stab with kris, get my regular attacks with it, then get a bonus 2 attacks with the sword for only 3d5 + char dmg. The +hit and +damage rolls on the sword would be negated since its not your primary weapon. This still gives a pretty big advantage to grouped warriors, but it gets closer to not being super powerful. I would have to look at some numbers but with dagger as main weapon the melee dmg done would be alot less than if you were wielding a sword, so there would be a way to do it.
Bloodlust - The thrill of the hunt can be supplemented with the blood of the slain. Just like a hunter drinks the blood of his first kill, the warrior can gain increased power from the blood of his enemy . Corpses can be consumed just like with infuse soul or sacrifice, blood would yield benefits based on the level of corpse. Embalmed corpses dont work. Alignment falls quickly during use.
Mike
Bloodlust = Vampire :)
I still like my idea :p single hand weapon can become two handed, just
remove the shield and get a big bonus, still thinking +5 +5.
I know some ppl that really drink deer blood out the heart right after they kill it. They arent vampires, just rednecks.
Mike
PS Young Sir William, how does say holding a dagger with 2 hands give it more power. Lets be honest, very few weapons are realistically 2 handed, it just makes you awkward holding it with both. Yes some weapons are 2 handed , but those you cant use with one hand.
Warrior Skills Mikey. Most warriors would use a sword or some sort of
weapon instead of dagger.
This would make most Warriors use Valor or other Swords, Maces.
Hey how many ppl can hit a home run with 1 hand?
How many ppl can hit a home run with 2 hands?
Also think LoTR, Aragon used 2 hands when he swing his sword. Never
used a shield, and he fought better. Hence the +5hit cause u can aim
better at a target with two hands. More damage … check above :)
PS: Redneck isn’t a Warrior Skill… or maybe it is. Dumb as a Warrior …
your basic longsword is an either/or weapon….normally is one-handed but can be wielded two-handed for more dmg, less finesse. there are some swords like claymores and bastards and zwei-handers that are two-handed only and of course your shorter swords, daggers, main-gauches, those are all one-handed and two-handed is normally not possible due to shorter grip on them. and in response to the dual-wielding thing, i think mike’s been secretly playing d&d. in ad&d skills and powers (where i got the weapon mastery ideas in the first place), it gives the diff in ac and dmg and stuff for the different choices your char can make…..dual wielding gives up a shield slot unless you have a small buckler or smth but because you have 2 weapons and, if skillful enuff, the two weapons dmg makes up for the decreased ac….and i think anything larger than katana would be awkward at best for dual wielding….i would think have one sword and one stabber (for example) and also having two medium to slow weapons (swords or larger) would slow you down TOO much, leave more opportunity for your swords to both be out of the way at same time and leave you wide open to attack of opportunity. (usually if you turn yer back on yer opponent or if it is hiding and can attack from behind or beside, you lose like 2 ac or smth and get surprise effects from dice for that round) sigh i think far too much
Most longswords are specifically 1 handed. The grip on mine is so short, your second hand would be holding the pommel, and not doing you any good.
A bastard sword is just that - a bastard - some call it a hand and a half. They are designed to be useful if used in either one hand or two, so you could switch as the situation advised. A lot of tactics would call for using a shield when facing archers, or a two-handed sword when facing armor.
Really, this is all too much detail for a game that wants to be fun. In my opinion, warriors should be generalists - good at fighting with any weapon they come across. Maces, axes, swords - all of them.
Yep, Charles is correct. Bastard swords are the main weapons that can be wielded with either one or two hands. I think I even have a 2nd Edition AD&D book around here somewhere that lists the damages for each. You don’t get a bonus… but if you wield it two handed, the damage dice actually change to allow for more damage.
I’m pretty sure Aragorn wielded a great sword, which is a two-handed weapon anyway.
As far as dual wielding, there’s various restrictions on it depending how you’re playing. Many many rules will restrict the off-hand weapon to be a smaller, weaker weapon. In mud terms, that would basically be a stabber, which would make it a main-gauche kind of weapon. Most will also give an extra attack for the off-handed weapon, but with a reduced chance to hit… and many times, reduced damage to one or both weapons.
It should be noted though, that a main-gauche was originally intended to be used in a primarily defensive capacity, with offensive posibilities…
It could be a nice combo with thief or bard though, which might make wa/th or th/wa more attractive to play. They’re pretty much died out since the advent of the new classo thieves.
I understand everyones points. They only weapons I can think of that are dual purpose are katanas and scimitars. The rest are either/or. Sword of Valor is for warrior prime, I was trying to keep it for everyone. I didnt get sword and dagger from d&d but from a chinese movie. Anyways the video game Soul Calibar has a girl with sword and dagger. The sword is used for ranged attacks and the dagger for when your in close. I guess the better solution is just to make new 2 handed weapons with only slightly higher dmgs.
Mike
We already have a two-handed weapon with maybe the highest damage around, short of the 3x40 axe.
Also, two-handed weapons get double the bonuses from Sharpen.
wow all these good skill ideas…. but really hmmm nope all not worth the time to get them ingame….!
really…!
yeah only good skill for warriors at this point is one that gives them more hps then any other class.
best tanks have the most hp.. that’s about it… right?
so give warrior more hp.
more hp
more hp
more hp
brand
:twisted:
post script:
no big just wasted and want more hp!
[img:25j82s92]http://www.treatyoffrancis.com/images/middlefingerkid.jpg[/img:25j82s92]
While AC and HPs aren’t the only measure of a tank, they are very helpful…
What other classes have more hps than a warrior prime that can make a viable tank?
Splork
does ‘protect’ mean ’tank’?
[img:2gp7nqfp]http://www.treatyoffrancis.com/images/middlefingerkid.jpg[/img:2gp7nqfp]
I am pretty sure that warriors have the highest hps ingame for a solid point/ tank position. If I am wrong, as you stated earlier, I would simply like some proof so we could fix the problem.
AC is something we may consider working on again…
Warcry, oaths, and the pain skills all come to mind in regards to skills for warriors that basically give them more hps.
Splork
[quote:q560dvp0]Ironically, Warriors don’t actually have the highest HP always any more[/quote:q560dvp0]
A warrior with good stats should always have more hp than any other prime;there are a few exceptions, such as a th/wa, but that is usually beacause of variations of stats and their eq…it can be a grey area sometimes…
[quote:q560dvp0]AC is something we may consider working on again… [/quote:q560dvp0]
That would be kewl- I’ve thought about the AC thing as well, personally, I think only a Wa prime should reach the highest functional ac in game(currently -11 I believe)…maybe consider a cap, or perhaps adding some new options to the eq restrictions grid…mage primes should not be running a -11ac–perfect example, someone wanted more firepower for mages, so cap their ac at -9, then give them the ‘ultrablast’ to make up for the extra pounding they will receive…that seems to make more sense…but definately on board with the AC issue…
MY $.666…keep the change…
Shazuko Roku Ryuu
<Chaos>
how about making tanks who have fly cast upon them able to do like flying mobs and “fly deftly out of reach” when mobs attempt to bash/trip/slap us out of the room?
rebs
hmm what about this idea:
a trophy collection for all your chopped enemys?
or something like a mob counter (like warcry, just without the war crys :)
which improves your hps – 100 level 40 enemies = 1hp plus or something (counting from now :)
Perhaps you could also create a new shop, with dead bodies|heads|honor or whatever as currency :)
Why are the warrior suggestions sounding more and more like old Vincent Price flicks? I’m still waiting for someone to suggest a moonwalk skill for warriors, letting them retreat from battle with style, but only if they’re wearing redsteel armor…
I guess people would have to actually use the in game skills to know wtf they are talking about. Everyone wants warriors to have clones of other skills, its nonsense. Most of this thread is bullshit. Learn about some eq, learn about some classos and this game, then come here and talk something that makes sense. Warriors got way more hps than other classes with bards comin in a far second. I remember a tank that had well over 1400 hp, lemme clear these cobwebs out my brain and think of his class. Even Atwell with Wa triple caster has more hp than any non warrior that I know. If your still wearing gear that you got at single 40, and your a 5x40 avatar then yeah you got less hp than someone with all the elite gear on. I got a better idea, lets start a welfare system where underpriveleged chars get free eq from players that run more than 1 area.
Mike
I don’t even know where to start. Where did all these idiotic ideas come from? Shut the hell up. If you don’t like your class, play a different one you
goddamned nancies.
[img:zzez6ygp]http://www.treatyoffrancis.com/images/middlefingerkid.jpg[/img:zzez6ygp]
I guess I should clarify a little… In my mind: Warrior != Barbarian. If you’re wearing more metal than the average home and swinging around a sword the size of a small car, then you’ve evolved past the point of making juju charms out of your opponents ears… Even if the necros haven’t yet.
HPs and armor are helpful. Flight certainly proved that, as do 95% of the tanks in the game. Wraithform and spectrals can also be very helpful but require a method of recharging periodically. Zukt and the slew of mini-Flights proved that. Bit doesn’t subcribe to any of that and he manages to hold his own quite nicely. The fact of the matter is, anything that helps you hold the line between the mob and the rest of the group is exactly what you need as a tank.
One of the more interesting ideas I saw for warriors was something called heroic rescue… or something along that line. Was a pretty cool skill in that it allowed you to rescue several people at once. Why would that be useful? Mobs like Tiamat that toss you out of the room, but have a habit of being bashed by the time you get back, so you can’t easily tell who to rescue. Or mobs like the king of darkness who summon helpers that get tossed into the next room and then all agress the group when it enters. Instead of issueing orders like ‘SING OR DIE!’ you can resuce them all in one foul swoop.
Either way, that’s my view. On a related note, several classes currently have the ability to achieve -11 that probably shouldn’t. And Mike does have a point, making a clone of a skill does not make it a new skill… it just blurs the lines between the classes.
Parry pretty much tips the scales. Even without oaths, warcry, and the pain skills, warriors are still better at getting beat down. Also lets not confuse run of the mill warriors with Flight’s template. Double non caster is gonna have more hp than nc caster. Just because warrior is your prime doesnt mean your the toughest on the block, your other classes determine how and where you do your dmg.
Mike
I seem to remember quite a few mini-Flight types. Mostly because they asked me endless questions about why I would choose Druid over Necro… Though that seems to have died off quite a bit lately.
Few players can struggle through being a nc, unless its thief. Everyone sees someone playing a template and getting good and they want to emulate it, usually with no good results. Ive seen a hundred Minstrel clones if I have seen one. Im still waiting to see the next bard Avatar.
Mike
I believe Flight was Wa/Mo/Ne/Cl, correct if I’m wrong.
But Wa/Mo/Ne/Dr would be the best for tanking only.
Also Flight had 1400hp, but currently from my understanding its impossible
to get unless u have all elite eq, forges, n quests :)
From what I’ve seen, all the specialty tanks flourish in their chosen environments, and very few sucessfully emulate them. As for which is best, there’s not really an answer. It really depends on what you want to do and how you do it.
[img:2qies1sl]http://files.blog-city.com/files/A05/141484/p/f/blackula.jpg[/img:2qies1sl]
Up and coming Bard tank. He’s all new class and my thought was I would make a tank like Ghost(shival) out of the new shit. WTCM=BODN more or
less. I see him having a lot of upside and not much down. 1200hp -11
greater fluidity, damage reduction, extra tick of wraithform from enhancement attunement, counterattack+ogham’s discipline, rescue
etc etc. I think he will be far more viable tank than about 80 or 90% of
the warriors out there.
[quote:2i3166wz]Just because warrior is your prime doesnt mean your the toughest on the block[/quote:2i3166wz]
hence the ‘variations’ in stats, eq, etc….
[quote:2i3166wz]On a related note, several classes currently have the ability to achieve -11 that probably shouldn’t.[/quote:2i3166wz]
Agreed.
[quote:2i3166wz]Also Flight had 1400hp, but currently from my understanding its impossible to get unless u have all elite eq, forges, n quests [/quote:2i3166wz]
It is possible if you put in the time and effort…mostly time.
[quote:2i3166wz]From what I’ve seen, all the specialty tanks flourish in their chosen environments, and very few sucessfully emulate them[/quote:2i3166wz]
Some tanks have developed an unusually good stab, and prefer skills like crippling strike and excruciating, as they are more usefull to their purposes.
Shazuko Roku Ryuu
Shazuko Six Dragons
<Chaos>
How about some real warrior skills here:
Intoxicate: Drink booze to switch unneeded INT and WIS for CON and STR! At lower levels overindulgence can cause Frenzy and Slurrr. At higher levels go Berserk! But beware the risk of Drunken Stupor–an inconvenient combo of Narcolepsy and Telephasia. Bars and moonshiners on every continent–except VK. Players intoxicated on VK risk getting fined by the Fat Constable for underage drinking.
Fear of God: More of a proc than a skill. A battle-hardened veteran swinging a ton of sharpened steel around with wild abandon through a battalion of Lymean Green Berets should damn well be able to put the Fear of God into an enemy. More so than say, a musician or a humble monk, at any rate. Could inflict something along the lines of ‘Chilled’ or ‘Scared Sh!tle$$’ status on the mob:
An invisible stalker is scared sh!tless$$ by your fierce presence!
Your reputation precedes you! Autolycos cowers before you!
Based on level, hp, ac, oath standing, whatever variables seem most appropriate.
Intriguing Dreams: A warrior’s version of “Dreams of the Castle”, only the dreams are definitely not about beds and castles…Overuse of this skill can lead to waking up with Sloth disease and no move points. And a stern admonishment next time you try to gain a level at the Cleric or Monk guilds.
Bully: Mort mobs in order to have them deposit gold into your bank account for some random amount of time. You get no kill experience, but you do get a bit of increased income for a limited time. Limited to X mobs per hardass.
Finesse Wench: Stroll into the less reputable areas of the city to have women (or men shudder) of ill-repute replenish your HP to max–for a price of coin and alignment. However, use caution–sending your little ranger into the bush unprotected could result in Child Support status, garnishing 1/3 of all your hard-earned gold for the next 19 years! Slight risk of Lepricosy, Cat Scratch Fever, or of waking up robbed and with one kidney on the Mexican black market. No discount for groups!
Marriage: Found that special someone here on Sloth? Marry them! Have a special ring or clasp or something to denote status to others. Added bonuses gained for grouping with your spouse. And avoid the risk of the Finesse Wench skill (see above). Remember though–if you ever get divorced, the person with the higher levels, better eq and more gold better watch out! You could get hammered with Alimony status. The equalizer? Collecting Alimony from a person renders you vulnerable to pkilling by that person without reprucussion.
And some of you remember what is was like to be a young sword-slinger, barely able to heft a bastard-sword. I know I do–it wasn’t that long ago. Let’s cut them a little slack.
VK only eq for men:
VK only eq for women:
Well, there’s a few starter suggestions. The list is open to expansion. In case you couldn’t tell, none of this stuff is serious, so don’t cry at me for posting it. However, if some open-minded Imm wants to implement some of it, feel free. Just make sure that you name the Lymean brothel the Whorior’s Respite, or maybe the Ill Eagle, and let me pick the name of the Headmistress. Laugh, cry, scream–I don’t care. It amused me for a minute, at any rate. j/k Auto, you’re the man.
[quote:1af2gsh0]Either way, that’s my view. On a related note, several classes currently have the ability to achieve -11 that probably shouldn’t. [/quote:1af2gsh0]
-11 hardly makes a ca/ca a tank. Besides. it isn’t all that easy to achieve, although druids can get there with almost no work at all. A tank’s strength is not in his/her ac. If you are an old school tank, well I’m sorry but it’s been several years. It’s time to see the writing on the wall.
off topic….aaron, get laid or something.
Wraithform needs to be adjusted so it can be cast on other targets. Whoever made the decision to restrict it that way, I’m glad they weren’t around when Sanc or Stone Skin were created. The early design of the mud supported teamwork.
No caster class should be “required” for a tank.
Lets be honest, Flight can quaff a soothing draught or a greater fluidity charm. Zukt cant restore, spellshield, aegis, etc. Both chars are powerful depending on how you want to play them, but i think having cleric is prob the most beneficial. For solo im sure that Zukt needs alot more prep time for his runs. Im not saying Zukt isnt one of the best tanks, just different.
As far as -11 is concerned, its not hard to achieve at all. It wont even require most of the elite forges. The piasa form at -11 is so limited its not even funny. Theres a huge difference between a warrior with 1300 hp who can blast, heal, cast word of recall acid blind etc etc, do whatever and a 2000 hp bird that can only blast.
In piasa form once your hps are low, you flee return to human, heal sleep cast ur spells then shift back. Also when your shifted you cant pick up temp cps or drachma tokens, so if your a quad caster that doesnt have ac your ass out on searching aggro areas with your +2 ac. There is a reason that Minstrel runs around in -10 and never shifts to kill. I dont think its because piasa is overpowered.
Mike
PS I forgot to mention that piasa cant order undeads, pyroclasm costs 40 mana and your mana is constantly ticking down. If you start the fight shifted, you cant curse, web or any of that good stuff. We can go into the argument about getting -1 shifted ac and using tarantula, then you can web but that argument dont fly with me. Play a druid to 40 avatar then bitch.
Lets remember, everyone cannot have it all. Its my point about cloning skills.
On the same token, Bit actually carries wraithform charms with him. I doubt that strategy would work if I was running the Desert hardcore, but that’s only one area in the mud. I think I’ve used the wraith charms like… twice. Maybe. For the areas he runs, his regen and rabbit more than make up for his weaknesses. Solo play is another matter. Lack of mage in classo keeps him fairly limited.
Desert just scratches the surface for wraithform mobs. From my experience chop style mobs like theris and fiends dont need any wraithform. Its the thief style mobs that it works on, stuff that hits really hard.
Mike
Mostly thief style mobs don’t worry me. Chop mobs that hit like thief mobs do. It’s an impressive thing when Bit is splorked. Tyroch and a couple others have managed it though.
“Zukt cant restore, spellshield, aegis, etc.”
My point was that all those are affects that can be provided by any group casters. Wraithform, and to a lesser extent spectral and fluidity, are the spells I know of that can help a tank but can’t be cast on him. Sure there are charms and purloin aura, but noone is going to use those for long groups.
[quote:3054z2lz]Theres a huge difference between a warrior with 1300 hp who can blast, heal, cast word of recall acid blind etc etc, do whatever and a 2000 hp bird that can only blast.
[/quote:3054z2lz]
That was pretty much my point. And for a ca/ca, -11 is not easy. For a tank, its just a prerequisite.
Purloin is pretty nice. There are a couple things that you can’t make charms for though… at least not that I’m aware of. Eudaemon being a big one.
so i’ve never really played a tank to the end but the main point we’re stuck on here seems to be what you can bring to the table. i’ve been here long enough (hell most of us have) to remember when the one thing a tank gave the group was hp and parry (parry being more hp because it soaks one hit worth of damage) i’ve healed almost every tank for the last few years at one time or another… and well things have changed. the new school tank brings more stuff to the table, damage reduction, wraithform, fluidity, and parry. it’s the new way and all the kids are doing it. i still believe that original classo tanks can take care of business (TCB) and there is no doubt that i like them all the best, hell most of my friends are old school. that said, i like the zukt classo it is simply put like a warrior…… on crack. still zukt was a dork until avatar, but after that well we’re all dealing with it. i would like to see wraithform as a target casting but hell i got it already so no rush. -11 is the new -10 we don’t need a -12. maybe a -11 with more +hp warrior prime eq… or maybe i should just hit the bong of destiny again…
brand :twisted:
#1 zukt is still a dork.
#2 we all like the old skool tanks
#3 doesn’t change a thing.
#1 zukt is still a dork.
#2 we all like the old skool tanks
#3 doesn’t change a thing.[/quote:k1815vvs]
you forgot
#4 why is anyone listening to brand anyway? its more entertaining to fart into a bottle and shake it up!
:twisted:
Hey, don’t tease Brand this time… at least what he wrote didn’t need a Brand-to-English dictionary. We try to encourage him when he does good.
Shit. All my friends on Sloth, whom I consider coolest people, are always called dorks :P
Piasa can web btw, capture :)
Someone call me a dork. :(
Please?
Avatar is a dork.
Happy?
:twisted:
i’ve known Charles for nearing 12 years now.. dirty bugger got me addicted to sloth..
I know he is a dorkl!
Now Kroka is sure to think I’m one of the coolest people. Thanks guys!
sneef no one has ever called me a dork. i guess this means that kroka doesn’t like me anymore. WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Firebrand is a dorkette.
peace :)
awwwwwwwww thanks hades! and ppl say you only care for the dead!
“what? did my hair go out?” hades–from hercules
where’s that music library hades
edit** suffice to say it sucks that you have to be good align to use a regular tard spell.
Charles, don’t worry, all DoWs are dorks in one way or another :)
Reb, you are still in my heart!
woot! she loves me! does the snoopy dance
rebs
The new AC scheme, like the old one, changes at -10. Previously AC -11 removed about 30% of the hits you would have gotten at AC -10, except that due to a bug, it only did it occasionally and randomly for some mobs in some circumstances - most of the time it was the same as -10.[/quote:1ev18t09]
Huh, I knew it!
Actually I have to say I’m discouraged with it but… well…
Thanks Kj and other immorts for making Sloth more interesting.
I’m gonna check my eq. Seems extra +hit will be much more valuable.
And.. did you mean you add new eq with better ac?
where’s that music library hades[/quote:3r9r2wl1]
yeah!
I’m gonna check my eq. Seems extra +hit will be much more valuable.
And.. did you mean you add new eq with better ac?[/quote:1zfm6liy]
I think so. I personally am not going to be doing that - equipment balancing is far too complex for my tiny brain - and we are going to be very careful about it.
I can certainly frolic through the fields randomly lowering ACs on mobs, though.
[quote:1uqhlok2]The new AC scheme, like the old one, changes at -10. Previously AC -11 removed about 30% of the hits you would have gotten at AC -10, except that due to a bug, it only did it occasionally and randomly for some mobs in some circumstances - most of the time it was the same as -10.[/quote:1uqhlok2]
Interesting change. I’m excited to see how this plays out in the game. At first glance, it seems that AC becomes a LOT more effective past -10. It’s time for a race to -13!
I wonder about the overall strategy. We seem to be adding caps for some things (weapon dam, healbonus, etc) and ignoring caps or removing them for others (standard +dam, ac, +hit).
Interesting change. I’m excited to see how this plays out in the game. At first glance, it seems that AC becomes a LOT more effective past -10.[/quote:2w2k1974]
I think the way AC interacts with hitroll changes after -10. If you are fighting something that almost never hits you, going from -9 to -10 might drop the number of hits by 50% while -10 to -11 will only drop it by 15%; but if you are fighting something that almost always hits you, -9 to -10 will drop it by 5% but -10 to -11 will still drop it by 15%. I am hoping that the new way is a lot less randomly dependent on the exact mob hitroll.
[quote:2w2k1974]I wonder about the overall strategy. We seem to be adding caps for some things (weapon dam, healbonus, etc) and ignoring caps or removing them for others (standard +dam, ac, +hit).[/quote:2w2k1974]
We are deciding these on a case-by-case basis. The +hit cap just had the effect of making +hit eq worthless, so that one needed to go. We were originally just going to raise the AC cap to -12, but I think under the new system if your AC is -13 instead of -12 it won’t make vast differences in power, unlike going from -9 to -10. And we want to be able to make mobs that are hard to hit even for avatars, so we just decided to remove the cap entirely and use the same math for mobs and players there.
Is -13ac even possible atm? Not a complaint btw, just wondering.
Can you give some indication as to what amount the +hit has been capping at, up to now?
Thanks.
Hah! was someone listening to my channel rants about useless hitroll eq and spells? Well probably coincidence.
I stopped casting demonic aura entirely for a while.
There are some considerations though; stab and similar skills. If you miss the mobs ac, you miss the stab, so study your mob thieves to make sure the defenses aren’t too high to bother without lots of +hit. This is an indirect weakening of necros because the pets now can miss even more; On large mobs, you will need groups of avatars just to hit them, but never fear those once useless spells corrosive surge, flames at midnight, and faerie fire can make it easier going, and swordsmanship isnt just pointless now.
King Dork Zukt.
On caps: just let eq set the cap most of the time.
I dont know how anyone would get to -13. Maybe as a piasa with a bunch of shift eq, or with a lucky fortune. -12 Is still a huge amount of work, and you pay a huge amount in hp.
It’s been a long time since I looked at AC eq. Since I got Plato to Av his EQ has been pretty stable. It’ll be fun to look at the lists again and see what’s possible. The shift in the way AC works past -10 seems interesting. It does seem like a more consistent method.
Regarding the +hit, I wonder how the Sloth multiclass system works with THAC0. I don’t remember the old THAC0 progressions, but it seems like characters without Warrior in the classo might be lucky to hit 10% if mobs are adjusted to be “hard to hit even for avatars”.
Interesting changes, I’m eager to login. Unfortunately I have dinner plans after work, so it will be a late and short night on Sloth.
I don’t think we have adjusted any mob ACs yet anyway.
Working the math in my head on that one, I think Charles has a fabulous point. Under the old system, warriors reached a THAC0 of 1 by level 20 and +hit became useless after +11. While the new system will certainly impact that, the other classes weren’t nearly as lucky.
Thief didn’t reach a THAC0 of 4 until level 40. While the standard 40 prime will only need +3 additional hit, sub-40s will have much more of a challenge on adjusted mobs. Mages will be basically reliant upon spells entirely, even at level 40.
Which basically makes me wonder, how many mobs will this really affect, and where?
Kara’sa, dragon mount, theris, ettins, fiends, cano, umm where else do you lead ?
Mike
From a builders perspective it was beneficial to put really low ac on the mobs because it added xp without adding any difficulty. So some of the areas hardest hit will be some of the traditional xp cashcows like dweb, etc…
Chuckle. Cute, but not terribly helpful.
Im joking btw, I would guess that ac will be lowered at imms discretion. Who knows what surprise were in for next.
Mike
From a builders perspective it was beneficial to put really low ac on the mobs because it added xp without adding any difficulty. So some of the areas hardest hit will be some of the traditional xp cashcows like dweb, etc…[/quote:28rsw6oc]
On that note, some of the less run, middle type areas might be useful. Having an xp area that can be run by say… 30ish prime group is a bit hard to come by.
From a builders perspective it was beneficial to put really low ac on the mobs because it added xp without adding any difficulty. So some of the areas hardest hit will be some of the traditional xp cashcows like dweb, etc…[/quote:3q3pau2w]
I looked around a little bit before I put this in and I didn’t notice any ultra-low mob ACs. You might try running dweb and see if nobody can hit anything.
Just for the sake of letting people get a feel for the new ACs, I lowered the ACs on the various gargoyles around the ebony tower.