Totally confuzled

:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

If Tanks Dont get special Props for being tanks…..Why even Bother having them ?

i mean hell if i can get necro prime skills with it at quad….whats the purpose of even bothering with specialized classos at all ?

Point exp comes to mind plus warrior class is being refined at the moment. Now that ahem “Splork” is back,.I’m sure you will notice some modifications that warrior/tanks will find..enlightening

I’m not sure I understand the question.

[quote:11znuece]whats the purpose of even bothering with specialized classos at all ?[/quote:11znuece]

The purpose is the same as it’s always been, play a classo that you enjoy. Everything else in this game changes from month to month, year to year.

[quote:11znuece]i mean hell if i can get necro prime skills with it at quad.[/quote:11znuece]

You have a juju zombie with a quad necro? That sounds like a bug, not a feature.

Get skills that non primes do not:

parry

riposte

massive critical hit

they also get:

the warrior prime weapon

access to certain pieces of armor.

Warrior has gotten a large denerf of the last two years,particularly when combined with the new classes reducing the once endemic surplus of warriors.

no i was being a bit sarcastic….people whine about warriors this and warriors that…..try playing one…its not a walk in the park…….

More often than not we are the dead ones….that someone shocks repeatedly……we rarely have cool areas to solo…because lets face it…..the only kinda mobs we can truly do well at are Nose dolphin types which require us scrapping it out for extended periods of time (which is NOT a way to get fast xp) I E like the mage and thief style mobs…that stab wind or wind wind dead…

a warrior should get some special props given the fact that hes COMPLETELY magically retarded its kinda pathetic when Talo a level 22 tard warrior monk in a regen room with good eq can only get like 60 MR a tick…..while hakon who isnt even an avatar yet can get 100……

warriors need to be left alone as far as im concerned….dont further nerf us….the only thing that makes us a credible classo is a good mage necro or cleric backing us…..

Sloth is all about combos. Most players can solo this or that, but it’s almost always faster, easier and safer to run 2 man. For a warrior type, its so that someone else can blind/weaken/etc behind them. For a thief, its with a mage that can blast the mob down after stab or save the day if the thief whiffs.

Necros and druids may be more geared toward soloing, but still very handy in a group situation. Hell, what you can pull off with the right combo of Valkers is pretty impressive even.

Warriors make the best walls. They’re not the only walls, but they do it quite well. Things that make good walls should be given to warriors because it doesn’t make sense to give them to thieves, mages, necros, druids, monks or bards. Clerics maybe, but their walls stuff tends to be more magical than physical, etc.

Since the goal is to make the mobs harder, so they can be worth more, so we can continue to grow, etc. we need skills that can grow with the mobs. Since warrior was feeling left out, it works out well all around. Besides, we’d all be confused if the skills were given to clerics and they were suddenly required to be the tanks. Then we’d all complain that the game doesn’t make sense anymore and quit. And no one wants that.

I’m very tired…. Some of that might have made sense.

if warriors are supposed to be the tanks at the front as you say they should get access to the better ac armor that other classes or access to the same ac armor earlier.

Warriors special ability, their USP, in this game should be their ac ability.

To cite an example and to jump on my hobby horse warriors or at least warrior primes should have some way of getting 1.7 legs much easier, even if this is combined with a stat decrease in some new eq just to get the ac bonus.

To extend the the point how about a range of wa prime eq that has good ac but some mitegating downside (-int -wis -ma -maregen or even -str so its not overpowered).

Either this or they should have access to a better ac perhaps -12 that other primes can’t access.

heeyyyyyyyy… i got an idea

this might even be worth trying…

howse about we all pool are efforts and skills..

get together and form a.. hmm.. a group!.. yeah.. yeah..

that would rock no? imagine what we could kill then :roll:

gasp

Jason!

How dare you suggest people do things for themselves.

[/quote:2tp3dcv1]

Warriors solo better now than they did before, and while you have to hunt a bit to find the solo warrior runs, they are there and you can do well with them.

Warriors were, for a long time, a left out class for soloing, that has changed considerably in the last year. You do have to be dedicated about it, and use the new skills well, but they have made a net improvement.

[quote:2l0k6pjs]the only kinda mobs we can truly do well at are Nose dolphin types which require us scrapping it out for extended periods of time [/quote:2l0k6pjs]

Speak for yourself Mark.

If you

A: dont settle for shitty stats, (1850 14 14 17 18 is the lowest acceptable imo)

B: use a good eq-set

C: include GOOD regen gear in your eqset

D: use your followers

E: use your wraithform on the appropriate mobs

Then playing a Warrior is one of the easiest things on sloth.

If, for some reason, you choose not to do the above then it will be a

long gay uphill battle fraught with anger and jealousy of other classes.

I have played all kinds of Warriors here, so I’m not just blowing smoke.

[quote:3kr9kpvg]

D: use your followers

E: use your wraithform on the appropriate mobs

[/quote:3kr9kpvg]

D: warriors don’t get pets

E: warriors don’t get wraithform

… sure you’re not thinking of necros here ?

You guys whine as if someone is forcing you to play:

warrior/warrior/warrior/warrior

This is a multiclass mud. If you’re not willing to use skills from your sec, tert, and quad classes to solo then you deserve your horrid xp rates.

If you don’t have wraithform, then use your stab. If you don’t have stab, then use your blasts. Surely you must have some decent class in there?

Warrior keeps you alive so you can do damage with other skills. Please don’t expect flail to give you better xp runs than Thief/Mages.

*edited for typos

I thought it was obvious that I was addressing Talo, Elsie. Every classo is different. Generally stick with a/b/c and you’re on the right track.

as we say on sloth: shrug,

I’ve played Elsie as a Wa Ma Cl Ba to 40 40 40 38, most of the xp has been solo, but whether it be down to my lack of knowledge of sloth or lack of imagination about how to use the classo I’ve come to the conclusion that the classo dosen’t work very well. In short I got bored of her, at some point I’ll probably throw the 1.xbill xp at her I need for Av, but her complete lack of any damage potential (or at least the way I play her) I find frustrating, this coupled with the Wa prime still can’t use a lot of the good ac eq is doubly frustrating.

Before you accuse me of whining I’m not, I’ve played elsie, stuck with her, got her -10ac stoned, got bored and moved onto another char that can solo mobs 3 to 4 times bigger than anything elsie can contemplate at 1x40 and solo xp twice as fast and do so with ease at 2x40.

The problem here isn’t sloth, its the choice I made up front, there are some classos that are better than others, there are some classos that suit some players better than they do others. I made a choice that didn’t suit me … my bad.

All this dosen’t mean that when I’m stating my point of view on a class I’ve played and that point of view isn’t wholly positive I’m whining … I’m not.

[quote:21tnns22]The problem here isn’t sloth, its the choice I made up front, there are some classos that are better than others, there are some classos that suit some players better than they do others.[/quote:21tnns22]

If more people would admit shit like this it would go a long way.

Great post Elsie.

Splork

I don’t see what all the hubub is about. Of course warriors should be tanks. But not all of us are gonna shoot for -12. I think it really just makes sense for the tank specialists like Toxis or Zukt. These guys with damage reduction and wraithform.

For me, I’m going for the +2 dam tard lite. I’ve decided that the Agemo/Lob/Gti/Rub classo is uber fun to play cuz you can tank a group, or run 2 man stab/blast with a mage. It was kinda hellacious before I got avatar tho. Killed a lot of boring mobs to get those last precious quad levels. But was definitely worth it.

I’m certainly not gonna hate on Zukt or Toxis or anyone for being a better tank than me. Variety is the spice of life. More power to the -12 er’s!

War And Th so if u dont have both you cant get it at a lower level. took me to 3x40.38 to get -11 ironed but being this is my first serious char here I dont feel too bad. Someone w/ wraith go tank desert ill come back ya up.

The Envious tank.

Alias

oh and even at say -12 or -13 I dont see how I will do as well as getting 75% of the hits passing through me. Wraith just rocks there.

it appears that my original post was completely misunderstood….most likely because of my lack of Poetic license…..

i was in NO way shape or form bitching about talo because quite frankly if i had it all to do over i would NOT CHANGE A THING……

I love being a warrior it rocks….is it as creamy as a thief ma or a necro prime that can summon all hell to come help you kill things….no….but i do say its really damned nice when you have NO real worries about dying if you properly prepare for a fight…. my point was that why is it that everyone bitches about every other classo but theirs…..

if you dont like it make a new one thats different and Man up and take responsibility for the choices you made and next time…. choose a classo thats more towards the aims and goals your interested in…..

dont cry to splork to nerf another character because lil johny or lil suzy got a toy you didnt get…..

ive been playin this mud for 10 years….we all have to play the style that our classo calls for….

Glad I could help 8)

Can I have that “x.slother to normal language” dictionary again, please, 12345? :)

Marchessa, I was never trying to imply that warriors couldn’t solo… Thanks for the heads up though…

Also, wraithform is not a prerequisite for a tank. It helps, of course, but it also creates a constant mana drain on your tank… 80 mana is more than sanctuary. How many tanks without aegis do you see that are responsible for keeping themselves lit and manage to run without running out of mana? Not many.

Like anything else, you have to how to keep it available, which means you need to know what to run, when and how. Much of the reason it works in the desert is because Mike knows how to use the blasting mobs to his advantage. Bit manages to tank much of the mud at -10 using just fluidity because as the leader, I’m balancing things to make it possible.

How you play is frequently more important than what you play, which is why you don’t see many Zukt clones. He might be the best tank, but the way he plays made it possible.. not the classo.

BAh! -10, tons of mana, decent stab is good enough for me.

say…anyone wanna buy a newbie necro? (wait, already tried that).

FWIW, I could solo far more at 25 tard with rr than I can with ana but I think it’s because I suck at playing mages. I think I can solo as fast with Xander as I can with Ana even…

anyway, unless I can find a way to -11 w/o losing 200 mana and a bunch of damage, I’ll keep on running -10 (sadly, that means I never get to tank anymore since everyone knows you cant tank with an old school warrior at -10).

warrior’s fine, just as long as you’re not in it for quick XP all the time anyway.

My belief is that the new epic mobs are going to require the heavier armor classes that are being put in. But for mobs that require that kind of armor, there needs to be 2 or 3 other tanks behind to soak up splatter and help keep the tank alive with floated heals. While it may well be that tanking one of the epics will require a 12/12 tank (1200+ hps and -12 ac or better) there will still be plenty of need for 1k/-11 tanks on most of the mud.

Look at the xp groups being run most nights, they are off lyme to help the lowbie characters of established players, and nothing that most of the groups do requires more than the current standard for tanking.

Epic mobs just require smart, alert players. I bet DoW could take them down with Shival at -10.

More on the Alert and ppl with lots of mana for heal/blasting. But then u

have some of them that takes u away and kills u :P

Epic mobs just require smart, alert players. I bet DoW could take them down with Shival at -10.[/quote:34l8fcwz]

Tanks need hps and parry for epic/quest mobs.

Tanks need best ac for exp groups.

This was a good thread guys, lot of good points here.

this seems to be helping blast as much as warriors, because there are already a goodly number of mobs that have high ac, and this incrementally tilts towards blasting those mobs rather than trying to tank them down.

I know those gargoyles in the ET are some dogshit now.

[img:2hhmyglq]http://darkreaver.angeltowns.com/images/diarrhea-xchris.jpg[/img:2hhmyglq]

I thought it was especially cool to hit 2/25 stabs in there at +12 to hit. One set of gargs totally drained 2 level 30 avatars. That’s just not right. Please look into this, or play a mortal and suffer like the rest of us.

Thanks

Aaron

Yeah, gargs suck now. Please fix.

I was just talking about this to Adam. Pretty much in one swoop, the imms have changed the game pretty hugely. I mean affecting the whole thief class inadvertantly trying to give warriors some love. Is this intentional? Because it means we have to gear ourselves differently entirely, which is pretty lame imo. I would like some discussion between the imms and the mortals on this please if possible. I just want to see where everyone stands.

Thanks

Aaron[/quote:3af6l5no]

Its about time thieves were penalized for running around in -10. I have always played a max dmg thief and always paid the price. I could never solo as much as the -10 thieves, tried running with alot of +hit but that never worked back in the day. I have always thought that it was total bullshit that every class tries to get -10 or -11. In the whole role playing scenario it makes no sense. Magis and thieves can only wear leather armor anyways. How in the hell is a thief wearing plate armor and a cuirass gonna sneak up on anything, including et guards.

Mike

Mike has a fantastic point of course, however, in every version of D&D I’ve ever played, thieves get a bonus of around +4 to hit a backstab. I’m not sure what the sloth equivilent would be, but I always thought it was odd that there didn’t seem to be one.

Such a thing would also only help with stabs… you’re on your own if you miss.

[img:qhmr5kf8]http://66.49.151.193/morton_salt%20girl.jpg[/img:qhmr5kf8]

I don’t know how drastically this has changed for most creatures, but the gargoyles were adjusted specifically to show us how mobs with high AC will feel like.

I don’t know how hard +hit eq is to pop for some testing, but if you’re missing stabs you may notice during some rounds of the hack & slash combat that your strikes are bouncing off the creature’s armor. If you can add +hit, a little at a time, it would be interesting to see when those “bounce” messages stop appearing. At that point, you should be at 95% chance of hitting.

Hrm…

Medios -I can’t argue against you if we’re talking about realism. You’re right that I shouldn’t be able to sneak up on someone wearing a complete set of heavy armor. But then I couldn’t shadowwalk, sneak, tail, steal, purloin, etc… either.

Sloth is a four class mud, which is inherently unrealistic. It’d be hard to imagine an armored knight laying haying hands on the wounded, or raising the dead, or casting complicated magic spells.

The only way to really fix that issue would be to go to a single class system. But then this wouldn’t really be sloth anymore.

Avatar - How do you know that the gargoyles are a taste of things to come? Are thieves really about to get nerfed that hard? If you know something, please elaborate.

***And why have walls of jericho been removed from drach shop? Thats what I was saving up for :(

[quote:3k0zpfvq]Avatar - How do you know that the gargoyles are a taste of things to come? Are thieves really about to get nerfed that hard? If you know something, please elaborate.[/quote:3k0zpfvq]

I hope this link works. The short answer is that KJ told us so:

<LINK_TEXT text=“http://www.slothmud.org/index.php?name= … =gargoyles”>http://www.slothmud.org/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2232&highlight=gargoyles</LINK_TEXT>

bleah, thanks

I’m getting rather attached to Rub’s stab. If they lowered the ac of all the ET mobs or DoT to match the gargs, I guess I’d have to abandon ship and play a blaster.

The eq in the weaver shop will be back in a crash or two. There just isn’t always the same shit all the time. Still no word from an imm I guess.

We have no intentions on changing the ac’s of all stab mobs or all mobs in general(Although I am sure we do change a bunch). This was just a test run for KJ since gargs are one of the most hit mobs in our mud. Im pretty sure he didnt even know they were stab:-)

Splork

Thanks Rick.

What have their ACs been changed to? I just ran gargs and with 40 levels of thief and warrior and a +13 to hit I was still missing sometimes as many as three hits per round. I still managed to get through to themwith the other two but it just seemed that perhaps they had a better ac than even -12. I’m not trying to whine here, just wondering. :o

onyly +13 to hit? *comf :twisted:

Nod, I got rid of most of my +hit gear as it seemed excessive to me, I mean a forty level thief warrior should be able to hit like -19 without any bonuses, or at any rate shouldn’t need to much gear to help hit an old womanly opponent like a gargoyle or a pirate :P

or at any rate shouldn’t need to much gear to help hit an old womanly opponent like a gargoyle or a pirate :P[/quote:1akdjijo]

pirate eh?

don’t make me smac you! :twisted:

Actually there are a lot of different identical-appearing gargoyles and their ACs run the range from -12 down to -18 or so. I think the ACs get lower as you get higher up the tower, but this was a while ago I now am not 100% sure of that.

And: in general we aren’t planning on raising the ACs on stab mobs, we are more looking at high-hp mobs for that. I just chose the gargoyles totally at random as a-mob-to-raise-the-AC-on to see what the effect was. As Splork suggested, I didn’t even look to see if it was a stab mob or what. If it’s a great hardship, I can put them back eventually.

On the other hand, maybe a thief-with-really-high-hitroll character build would be worthwhile if we made splork mobs with high ACs that were too dangerous to hit if you didn’t have the hitroll for it, but gave better xp if you did…

I think the way the math works out a +13 hit is closer to -11 than -19.

That sounds reasonable, let mega thieves hunt thin but armored stab mobs.

Heh just remembering old 2nd ed D&d where a 40th level warrior would actually have had a thaco around -18. Of course in third ed a 40 warrior would have a basic attack bonus of around 30 and lets face it have some huge final bonus of around 45 (if not more). Either way I think high level characters should always hit their opponents unless they role the proverbial 1. I don’t think high level chars should be missing this stuff based on to hit alone. I think a high level char should be able to find the chinks in armor. Now of course this is just being implemented and will no doubt have a bug or two here or there and as the imms have already mentioned not every mob in the game will now be AC -20. I find it does make things somewhat more interesting, but believe me I die plenty on the mobs that are out there already, just ask the people who have to come rescue my newbish ass! :)

If all high-level characters regardless of class or eq always hit, then there’s no value to hitroll eq. That is part of the situation we’re trying to rectify. It would be reasonable for someone with the most-hittingest classo with all the best hitroll eq to always hit, but then other people should not always hit or else what’s the point of being in the most-hittingest classo with the most-hittingest eq?

I’d try to set things up so that equal characters have a 50% chance to hit each other. So, 5th level warrior hitting a 5th level warrior-type creature would have 50% hit rate. Bonuses help, so swordsmanship, +hit from str, etc would bump that 5th level character to maybe 65%, and with full eq maybe 75%.

Characters should then only get 95% hit rate on lower level targets or caster type mobs that shouldn’t be wearing as much armor.

Then caster classes would of course have a lower hit rate due to levels. I know all you quad caster types would rarely hit the largest warrior type creatures (5%), but that’s why proc weapon blasts always hit. You’d need pretty substantial +hit bonuses to maintain a high hit rate. That should be another drawback to quad casters - no martial class means you lack some skills in fighting.

The thing is, NO-ONE wants to have to fuck around with +hit eq. No-one, the whole game. No-one, unless you’re gonna feature some new eq like .4 +1hit rings or something where people don’t have to choose between +hit and spelldmg/HD/dmg/AC/Anything else.

We have a ton of new areas going ingame within the next few months. I am quite sure we will concentrate our new eq efforts in the areas you are talking about 13.

Splork

on a related note can we please work on deathtouch some more. Im runnin +13 hitroll war prime thaco and missing on touch at least 50% sometimes more even when quake sings brothers to me it doesnt seem to help much.

I cant think that my equivilant to a single stab would be out of line if it hit as much as stab does when they average double.

alias

Right now, the combined deathtouch hitrates are about 81% and we are quite happy with that.

It is one of the most used avatar skills or spells. I really do not see us tweaking it much more than possibly another couple % points, if that.

Splork

Indeed, to clarify I meant that warrior types should be hitting, I do think casters should be hitting somewhat less often. But come on there are so many sexier bumps to have than to hit, lets face it anything (even move regen) is more fun! I sincerely hope that I don’t have to start supping a peri instead of a eudaemon or changing out cool hand gear for silver guantlets just to make it through the day here on sloth. To hit eq usually equals lame eq, just my two cents worth. :)

Thanks Rick ;)

one word: clasps. lots of lovely +hit clasps. :twisted:

Dtouch should be 85-86 before brothers. At 81% it doesnt make much sense to use except for mobs that cant hurt you if you miss… If its the most used avatar skill right now, its probably because most avatars dont understand it and the stats…

When dtouch is at 80% average and dgrip is at 90% average that means you miss dtouch twice as often, one out of five mobs. If those mobs hit hard at all, that means you’ll have to recover and regen twice as often. Now if dtouch is at 85% ave, then miss rate is about 1/7th… you miss about 50% more than a grip and then the skills really are balanced in desirability. After all, dgrip inflicts 2 hitroll while gripped, hits 50% more often… very desirable on mobs that are going to take more than 1 round to die or in groups. Dtouch has slightly more splorking potential. Given a 1/5th miss rate, I might as well just grip and strike/wind/order.

I use it on some corpse runs, but those mobs cant hit me anyways.

[quote:3pmadmu4]I sincerely hope that I don’t have to start supping a peri instead of a eudaemon or changing out cool hand gear for silver guantlets just to make it through the day here on sloth. To hit eq usually equals lame eq, just my two cents worth.[/quote:3pmadmu4]

That should largely be up to the area owner. The change was largely to provide flexibility to area owners. Its not terribly compatible with general stab mobs, but an area owner could have a number of mobs that have AC’s just barely low enough so you have to use an extra hitroll eq, faerie fire them, or whatever, and they’re worth a little more xp or dont hit as hard or something along those lines.

But really what its useful for is more choppy mobs… use a corrosive surge and a flames at midnight to keep everyone hitting it. Keep grace up. Set up autofaeriefire scripts… Not all areas will be affected by this, but it provides flexibility for builders to tweak mobs to require certain spells and lifts the effective cap on hitroll. Otherwise why have hitroll at all, and just have chars allways hit 95% of the time.

This makes the mud richer in flavor. It was sort of neat to come up on a mob that my pets were missing, and it was a significantly harder challenge even though Zukt was hitting it fine.

Actually, on that note Zukt, a couple of druid forms, necro summons or supplicants that have high +hit with lower average damage would be kinda cool.

Again on that note, Osric isn’t the type of character to have a ton of summoned mobs helping out, it was me that wasn’t hitting not some group of animated kobolds running around with me, the part that I didn’t like was that with all the time I have invested in this game now there will be more mobs that I can’t tangle with cuz not only can I not hit it, but they can easily hit me. You see gang, as a thief I have about the shittiest AC in the game, most casters have better ACs than I do, I can live with that, especially if I can still actually go out there and splork a mob here or there, but every now and again it hurts gang it really hurts. :P

I doubt you solo choppy mobs for fun. Or nostab mobs, or try the really huge ones for nocap… If the area writer wants to he can make the area suck for you; Then you wont visit the area and hes wasted his time. Stab mobs with ac that makes you double wiff 30% of the time is going to be just bad area design.

Again, this is supposed to be able to provide flexibility for builders. If a builder really screws up then it will show with no one visiting the area.

Now a builder might make a concept area still with stab mobs with high ac but lower hp or lower damroll or higher xp, and you can adjust for that with a peri, hitroll eq, or faerie fire and be at 95% hitrate again. If the mobs ac is so low that getting there isn’t worth it, then you wont run the area and the builder screwed up… or specifically intended it for a different classo.

faerie fire on stab mobs…right

This is at +15 to hit:

A hate-filled undead soldier hates your guts!

You can taste the impending victory!

A hate-filled undead soldier quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!

<1075hp 68ma 171mv>

Caldrick – ’nope'

<1075hp 68ma 171mv>

You are rescued by Caldrick, you are confused!

Griffin utters the words, ‘blindness’

A hate-filled undead soldier seems to be blinded!

Caldrick skillfully parries the attack of a hate-filled undead soldier.

Caldrick’s riposte viciously massacres a hate-filled undead soldier.

A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.

A hate-filled undead soldier misses you with his slash.

A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his hit.

A hate-filled undead soldier massacres Caldrick to small fragments with his slash.

Caldrick misses a hate-filled undead soldier with his slash.

You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.

<1015hp 70ma 173mv>

You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.

A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.

You are viciously massacred by a hate-filled undead soldier’s hit.

Caldrick skillfully parries the attack of a hate-filled undead soldier.

Caldrick misses a hate-filled undead soldier with his slash.

You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.

Heavell looks at a hate-filled undead soldier.

Turns out that guy had an ac of -80! I am assuming someone goofed and he was supposed to be -8, so I put it to that.

Osric, I wasn’t implying that you ran with undeads. However, prime warriors and monks have a significant THAC0 advantage over every other class in the game at sub-40 levels. At 1x40, thieves aren’t too far off the mark of where warriors are, though skills like swordsmanship give a substantial boost to a class that already has a +hit advantage.

I was referring to other classes, like Mage and Necro that will effectively have no chance to hit a high (low) AC mob. Mages can basically compensate by doing the blasting thing but necros, clerics and druids aren’t as effective at blasting and will basically be shut out without some kind of modification.

Regarding the hate-filled soldier with -80 AC, I guess it’s possible that the mob always had a -80 AC but we never noticed because of the AC cap?

Clerics and Druids are the same place as ever, hopefully they have some other class that can blast, has a decent +hit rate, or some other method to do damage. :)

Charles

I’m pretty sure only your primary classo contributes to your THAC0… I could easily be wrong though.

That’d be interesting to see. It sounds odd to have a multiclass mud like this and only have the prime class affect the hit rates.

I guess it’d be easy enough to test. I have Cl and Wa prime old class tards. With a stab weapon (ignore swordsmanship) and some hack mobs, I should be able to see if there’s a significant difference.

If I get time this weekend I’ll give it a try.

I’m wrong.

Heh I’m glad you’re wrong on that one Bit.

It makes sense that putting warrior or monk in your classo should improve your melee skills.

Does anyone know if warrior and monk are essentially equal in melee skill? or does swordmanship put warrior on top?

I was looking at 2 classos I might play: cl/ne/wa/ba vs. cl/ne/mo/ba

Which do you think gives a better advantage to melee combat?

Swordsmanship is a +3 hit if you have a sword-ish type weapon, so for a warrior prime with a valor sword, you’re basically going to hit what you’re aiming for. If you don’t plan on using a sword, or if you plan on going barehands, I can’t think of anything that would provide a clear advantage.

I’m a fan of warrior I guess. 3x attack (quad at avatar) and critical hits are a nice combination.

Looks like a good classo for having lots of pets.

being cleric you’ll probably be using dark mace a lot of the time, which would say be warrior

aside from attacks, warrior would give you gut, nice but very move consuming and not really good for solo, broadside (from personal experience not as good as strike), and the nice bloodrage stomp and toss.

but playing Verin [ cl dr mo ba], it’s been really great to have monk. you flurry holds even with triple attack (at least until quad attack), counterattack is amazing in barehand combat and doesn’t remove an attack, and presage lets you leave and come back to combat if a spell falls or whatnot without giving them an extra hit. and don’t forget deathgrip would give you an opening move aside from hit $targ

I have to say I’m partial to monk, as it’s got similar fighting ability to warrior and it has sweet skills besides

Deathblow not good for solo? Are you serious?

Playing Zukt is interesting because he does more damage with the sword if he is lagged, casting, etc, and more damage with striking otherwise. He allways wields the sword when ordering, and removes it to strike and flurry if he doesnt have to do anything but chop.

But he allways wields for the deathblow, especially on permalit mobs. And its fun too.

C’mon Zukt, you cant possibly know what your talking about. I mean you don’t even have cleric!

Mike

:roll:

You throw a fireball at a Red Sash and are disappointed at seeing him easily evade your spell.

yep

That made no sense whatsoever.

Idiot

I love my classo but I am envious of Wraithform in the desert. my charms dont last long enough to make it worth tanking there. Used 6 in about an hour. Pets would be nice to solo but I love mage spells. Maybe Im not the best tank out there (Im sure of that) but a lot of the ac stuff is still coded War And Th so if u dont have both you cant get it at a lower level. took me to 3x40.38 to get -11 ironed but being this is my first serious char here I dont feel too bad. Someone w/ wraith go tank desert ill come back ya up.

The Envious tank.

Alias

oh and even at say -12 or -13 I dont see how I will do as well as getting 75% of the hits passing through me. Wraith just rocks there.[/quote:1apwcb17]

errrrmmmmm i don’t use charms or pets….sometimes i will use coconuts to get fluidity and spec shield and a couple other nice gifts and it doesn’t cost me mana or use up charms. i don’t have dmg reduc, nor wraithform and have successfully tanked desert MANY times. if you have a well organized group and healo, a lit warrior tank can handle just about anything not quest or epic that the group comes to. i don’t know how many times firebrand has been tanking in a group, lite fell, no one noticed and due to a kickass healo, tank as well as group lived to move on to next fight. fb is oldskewl wa/ma/th/cl and yeah she dies frequently, but i blame that on the player, not the group or her lack of newclass buffs and perks. not having those perks does not make firebrand any less of a good tank and severely pisses me off that someone will tell me “let this newbie tank because he has dmg reduc and wraithform” that is insulting as all hell. i don’t mind letting a newbie tank get point bonus exps so that he/she has an opportunity to get xps faster, but don’t tell me that fb is less qualified without those skills and spells. (yes i am aiming this at bit who will NOT share point bonus exps….leader bonus OR point bonus. you cannot get both so as leader, yer automatically out on the point bonus…quit being a jerk and let someone else get the point bonus) seriously guys, she doesn’t run around with pets, rarely gets to use her rabbit due to keeping her align in the negs and stuff. yes, i have her at -11 ac and plan on sacrificing some mana and hps for better ac. it’s not all about what only the char can do. sloth is designed to be a group mud. yeah, there are some things we can solo and i love having solo time just for a change. but not one char can “have it all”. we (imms) don’t want it that way. we want players to make different classos, experiment and HAVE FUN. we want people to join clans, make friends, get into groups. we have things -hopefully- spread out across the classes so that people will come together in groups to use the different combos of skills, spells, songs, eq and player know-how to get things done. yes, warriors should get the best ac…they’re tanks and designed for it. i sorely disagree that casters should be able to get higher than say -9 or -10 max. yer a caster. let the tank get hit. that’s his job. if you want to play high (low) ac, make a freaking tank char and play it up. we need casters and blasters to be in high mana to blast and heal and stuff, not 2.tank. and do NOT start listing chars that have been caster tanks - a couple come to mind, but again that is the skill of the player not the perks of the classes.

“girls talk too much!”–peter pan

Yer right, Reb. It’s mostly the player.

holy shit! auto agreed with me!

“NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! THEY’RE ALL GONNA LAFF AT U!!!!!!!!”–toxis

While I will agree that it is mostly the player. To say that Firebrand is as good of a tank as Toxis is just clearly ignorant. Just because there is a good healo to keep you alive does not mean that someone else does not take the hits better. When a tank can cast wraithform and have half the round pass through, the clerics can blast or use the mana in better ways. C’mon Reb wake up and make a new char or stop bringing this up. Old school warriors < new school ones.

Mike

holy shit! auto agreed with me! [/quote:25gaw5cg]

WTF????!!! :shock:

Reb you need to smoke more!. that was Aaron that said that.. not me..

I think you are a krappy tank :twisted:

i hate to say it.. but brad is doin pretty good :evil:

I actually typed up a huge reply to FB but you know what? I don’t care. I don’t care about leader bonus, I don’t care about point bonus. Folks running on Lyme don’t get either one, so what’s the big deal?

Quite frankly, I’m not running the group for you. Nine times out of ten, I’m following the path of least resistance. I got enough people joining and leaving that I don’t want to mess around with having the healo healing the wrong tank because there was a switch, relying on tanks to have aegis up and down triggers, whiners, and all the other junk that goes with it.

Bit has everything needed, his name is easy to type, and frankly, it makes it easier for me to lead because I have first person view on the status of the battle. Silly me, I like to lead in a way that I find most comfortable.

If you have issue with it, feel free not to join. Or better yet, show everyone that you’re a better leader and lead how YOU want. Mike does it on a regular basis, its not too hard.

Tanking is fun :x

blow me bit. i rarely to never join your groups because you won’t let anyone else tank…i don’t f u c k i n g care if it is not me! i don’t care that you’re “not running the group for me”. DUH. i know you’re not because i did not ask for your leadership to help me pop eq/xp. you lead because you feel like it. good for you. you as a leader can EASILY see wtf is going on in your group if you simply use the ingame gag fight command. all you see is what you, the tank and the mob are doing, with once in a while another char’s actions showing up in the spam. that is pretty front seat and damned simple! and i see you mostly leading OFFlyme, a s s h o l e, which is why i brought up the point about the point bonus xps. as for ppl leaving/joining frequently, have you ever thought that they DON’T like your tankleading style? i would not have mentioned it if i have not had several other people comment to me about not wanting to group with you because you would not let THEM tank either! and i am not going to mention names because my memory is shitty at best. most of the time, people will either ask “who is tank” or will type group, see (Point) off to the left of playername in the group and think “heal this name”, and maybe also have a variable for $tank and have alias ht for heal $tank. too f u c k i n g simple, imho. as i mentioned in previous post about “well organized group”, there are players who will either (a) use the “watch” command that works with spellcraft to see the tank’s lite about to fall, (b) the tank will have a trigger that gtells “lite falling/lite down” in whatever spammy way the player wants to write it, (c) will use the group command to see if the tank’s hps actually are what the whiner is currently showing for JUST IN CASE the whiner is lagged for whatever reason (tank using actions that lag their char and/or client [bash/rescue/fill-in-the-blank] or tank having stacked/spammed commands that get in the way of whiner being able to accurately report) or (d) the healo/dsancer will see the tank start to take far more damage than before, type look, see tank not glowing and flee/lite/wall tank. granted, there are players who are simply new to doing these things, which is why there are differences in the way groups flow and yes, there are always going to be groups that have a cf for whatever reason and not simply because someone has not yet learned that you can type “heal autol” and know it will heal autolycos instead of worrying about whether or not they can spell out mile-long names. even so, i don’t know of anyone who does NOT typo even simple words like ’em’ when trying to type ‘me’ every once in a while. we are HUMAN and are allowed to err, so get over that point too. grouping is only as hard or as simple as you want to make it, dude. i am just trying to help other tanks get some f u c k i n g hands-on experience instead of watching you be a jack-of-all-trades. if you want to “do it all” then solo

“why couldn’t you put the bunny back in the box?”–poe –> con air

p.s. auto and aa, sorry about the name mixup - i was too damned sober for my own preference but oh well. and yeah, toxis IS doing a pretty damn good job…go figure. he’s WA prime this time around

Well, this is getting a little funny.

First

[quote:3050v7l0] and frankly, it makes it easier for me to lead because I have first person view on the status of the battle. [/quote:3050v7l0]

I agree, I always prefer to tank when I’m leading if it’s feasible. That’s why I ran more real groups with Mustang. Frankly I don’t trust about 80% of the tanks on Sloth to do anything other than shadow keep and suck at that.

Second

Bit, you just got out of the BH castle, calm down.

Erm and an extra one

Reb shut the fu ck up about point/lead xp. It’s nil. If you would grab a mage and 2 man on lyme you’ll see just how gay grouping for xp is. Also

a pebble is > enchanted fishing pole. I hope you have 40 tard and your regen gear fixed by the time I return to Sloth.

Aaron

This is all really ridiculous..

I even heard someone mention the leader tank but let the 2.tank take point bonus.. I about fell out of my chair… since that makes 2. not protable.. but wtf do I know? (meaning that person is too stupid to tank)

Lead how you want to lead.. if its your group lead it your way.. the leader chooses who does what (period) Don’t be a backseat leader, don’t try to tell others how to lead their group. (which is what i do to van constantly :twisted: )..

If you don’t like the way they lead.. stfu and don’t follow!!! it’s easy.. I do it daily, I won’t follow people I think suck at leading etc. Q.E.D.

Mudding, leading, soloing, grouping… blah blah blah. it’s all by choice. nothing is forced on anyone here (except my grouchiness, for which there is no escape)

I quit leading because of this krap, I would rather solo then listen to people tell me how to run my groups. Granted I’m not the fastest or best at organizational leading, but trying is better then bitching.

There are many people out there that are great leaders like Minstrel, Van, Atwell, Bit, Alias etc. some can even lead/tank and they all lead differently and that is fantastic! I would gladly drop everything to die for them (and frequently do!! :shock: )

(ps) Everyone chooses there own classo’s, no-one held a damn gun to your head to make it and no-one keeps the gun there to make you play it. If you don’t like your char.. find ways to compensate or ditch it and start a new one. (poke Brad & Steve)

FB lead your groups your way and drop it, stop trying to tell others how to lead their groups.

I’m surprised to see someone who has an imm here cursing at players. Calm down FB - anger leads to the dark side.

takes another bite of dumbass pie yeah yeah i know. public apologies made here to all who i have offended. i am stepping off this subject. really meant to go off on the tangent of let warriors be thickest ac and totally stuck my foot in mouth because i was pissed. either way…done is done, can’t be undone. but i WILL stand up and admit i should have STFU and do honestly apologize for showing my ass. let it be over….read, laff at the reb and move on. show’s over.

rebs

Do what ya want I guess - basically it’s up to whoever is leading, although IMHO it’s not the best idea to have the leader tanking because when they shock and corpse (which usually happens to the 1.tank before anyone else in a group) then the entire group becomes ungrouped, which wastes a heap of time refollowing, rearranging the group order, fixing protects etc, basically a lot of pissing around. ..If leadership shifted automatically to the next person down the chain then no worries, but AFAIK it doesn’t as yet..

I prefer to keep the group alive. If someone has to die as a result of my leadership, that person should rightfully be me. The less time spent recovering from cf’s, the better.

Firebrand (08:11 AM) :

hey can you log in and gos that i am dead at fisherman on island pls?

… :shock: