Thiefs vs Monks

I’m not sure if this was brought up in past forums or not …

About a good year or two ago when the new classes was brought in.

Groups could use Monks or Thiefs as grippers/stabbers. Since the new

changes with crippling strike (I believe thiefs got stronger stabs by tard lvl)

and with 3x stabs. Monks are no longer needed.

I was wondering if there are any plans in the future to upgrade Monks for

better grips?

laugh..

Hey I’m all about superpowered thieves..

But honestly.. arena Nab sometime, then tell me monks are no longer needed. :roll:

There are some damn good monks out there and I agree they need a little more love tossed their way.

As long as there are !stab mobs, i’ll be happy to share prime time with my monk bruthaz.

Well I’m pretty sure grip lvl25 gets stronger until lvl40. Just like stabs.

Thief Avatar 1 - 40 theirs get stronger

Monk Avatar doesn’t get anything unil 38 for Deathtouch. Unless it’s code

and we don’t know, but maybe every 5 tard monk it gets stronger?

Wow again Akasha will be shocked that Jason and I are agreeing!

the +hit & +dam bonuses for Ava effect the same on levels for feef or munQ.

Well I’m pretty sure grip lvl25 gets stronger until lvl40. Just like stabs.

Thief Avatar 1 - 40 theirs get stronger

[/quote:2mkuf3pv]

not unless you’re referring to the +dam and +hit av modifiers, and those aren’t class-specific. Stab multiplier doesn’t increase for av levels that i’ve noticed, nor does stabdam cap go up.

Monks are no longer needed.[/quote:3tzv633f]

Not true, though it depends on the tactics you like to use. Deathgrip is an opening web, which is handy on a handful of mobs. It also decreases mob’s ability to hit, which is really cool when used correctly. Thieves cannot hit nostab mobs or ethers, but monks can. Monks also do more raw damage than thieves after the stab/grip and aren’t as crunchy in the 2.tank/3.tank position.

indeed..

i prefer having Nab take the hits :twisted:

I have’nt played a monk but I think with the extra attacks they can get greatly increase their potential. While thieves get triple whiff, over the long course of battle, monks will do more damage from the extra atta.cks et etc

The only other decent skill thieves have is steal. :roll:

The extra attacks? you mean the one extra attack if you don’t wield a weapon, that is of course if the monk has mage in the classo for haste. if not flurry just makes up the difference between haste and no haste. Or did u mean the extra attacks when u grip a mob and u dont get any other attacks for the 3 rounds your gripping… So lets see a grip and no attacks vs stab and 3/4/5 attacks a round depending on level and haste x 3 rounds. Oh lets not forget about deathtouch … I was so psyched about it when I got it till I saw how horrible it was to actually hit w/ it; at least thieves get 3 chances to miss, monks only get one chance to whiff. Monk imho is not the best offensive class period the end. Monk skills are nice tho, I do like presage and dam reduction. And don’t keep bringing Nab up. Hes a hell of a player, and there are no other monks like him.

Guess thats why monk prime is the only prime I don’t have. I just don’t feel they are up to par.

Alias

I like my 5 attacks :twisted:

You viciously massacre Shuggoth Lord with your pierce.

You are brutally massacred by Shuggoth Lord’s hit.

Shuggoth Lord misses you with its pierce.

You are brutally massacred by Shuggoth Lord’s pierce.

You are viciously massacred by Shuggoth Lord’s crush.

You viciously massacre Shuggoth Lord with your pierce.

Well… I must say I agree with Alias wholeheartedly. Monk has great skill set…. and the skills they have are just as good nonprime as prime. Yes monk prime gets kensai and wraithtouch.. both excellent skills…… and yes monk prime has higher dam reduction cap and probably higher hand damage cap. BUT… nonprime monks do essentially same damage as prime monks. Primes grip/touch for slightly more at same lvl/damage but the difference is pretty small.

As much as people want to… its tough to compare grip/touch with stab. Maybe can try with touch vs. stab but its been constantly stated that the skills were meant to be different. There is a full round of lag associated with grip/touch. If you play monk, be prepared to have to fight and take hits.

As with any class/classo…. hit mobs that show off your strengths!

[quote:17spo5fz]As with any class/classo…. hit mobs that show off your strengths![/quote:17spo5fz]

That’s my Dog!

monk skills do not apply here.

You skillfully parry the attack of the black dragon queen.

The black dragon queen hates your guts!

Your riposte viciously massacres the black dragon queen.

You are brutally massacred by the black dragon queen’s claw.

You are viciously massacred by the black dragon queen’s claw.

The black dragon queen misses you with her claw.

You are viciously massacred by the black dragon queen’s claw.

The black dragon queen looks shocked as she cuts herself on Ever’s bone armor!

You deal a massive blow to one of the black dragon queen’s vital organs.

You viciously massacre the black dragon queen with your slash.

The black dragon queen spits acid at you! Your flesh is seared!

gotta love them thieves that make this possible.

Alias

monk skills do not apply here.

You skillfully parry the attack of the black dragon queen.

The black dragon queen hates your guts!

Your riposte viciously massacres the black dragon queen.

You are brutally massacred by the black dragon queen’s claw.

You are viciously massacred by the black dragon queen’s claw.

The black dragon queen misses you with her claw.

You are viciously massacred by the black dragon queen’s claw.

The black dragon queen looks shocked as she cuts herself on Ever’s bone armor!

You deal a massive blow to one of the black dragon queen’s vital organs.

You viciously massacre the black dragon queen with your slash.

The black dragon queen spits acid at you! Your flesh is seared!

gotta love them thieves that make this possible.

Alias[/quote:9x3ny14h]

Did I miss something here Alias? Or was the thief too slow for the stab?

And look Parry + Riposte = Counterattack.

I’m with Jason on the more love to Monks. Also whats the use of bodyslam?

Maybe I’m wrong, but can you bodyslam in fight or is it an opening attack?

the thief opened up defenses with exc blow

the thief opened up defenses with exc blow[/quote:19cb7qkd]

I don’t even see a “Stab” in that battle. Guessing Alias beening a smart

ass and saying he doesn’t need monk or thief for that fight :p

The group thief opened w/ excru blow and then we whipped her ass for still being alive.

nah… Alias is being modest.

he don neehd no steenkyn group.

Alias r tuff, he beat dat bytch down

Banedon (Stoopid monk) compared to Autolycos (Thucking feef w/o Monk) what more comparison is needed?

1. 8)

cackle :twisted:

Thief is a fairly one-dimensional class, stab is your main skill.

Monks get great damage reduction (a prime monk avatar like nab has 16~~18 damage reduction per hit, vs. 10~~12 for the warrior monks), this alone on a mob with multiple attacks has a huge impact. 6 hits * 18, you do the math, over 100 points a round. Monks get counterstrike which is great for soloing. Monks strike costs no move and is pretty close to thiefs circle. Non prime monks get this skill, while non thief primes dont get circle. Monks have several item slots with multiples of hand damage, thiefs really do not have any ingame items that do the same (now there is an drachma item). Monk has numerous other skills as mentioned, flury, focus, etc…and grip is better than you think, but not better in large groups than a thiefs stab. Grip does affect more targets than stab as a bit of tradeoff.

With all those advantages, you want to make grip on par with stab?

I do agree, you see a lot of thief as a primary class and not a supporting class, monk is the other way around, on newer chars.

I would agree Krom that Thief’s main skill is stab and pray that the mob

dies, or if it doesn’t they don’t have “much” of a lag to blast it to death.

Talking about dam reduce, and about Nab :) Your saying that the cap is

16~18 or nats? I know Monk Prime will have more of a cap, but I don’t

believe there are any eq in game (drachma/auto) that offers more dr.

Now if Monk Prime has a more natural reduction, then I didn’t know or

can tell on the mobs that I hit.

Counterattack, is a great skill when it was first put in. However many wa/mo

used the skill and it was almost the same as “Parry”. So it was changed,

and it works about 20% of the time. So when soloing, Monks will get

hit about 80% of the time. Not so great when soloing a high hitting low hp

mob.

Cricle/Strike = Strike is better, not even an issue. Non-primes gets the

same benefits as a prime. I know they use to cost mov but sucked up

Monks mv like no other. Thiefs get … +2-3mv per lvl as a monk gets 1mv.

Hand Dam/Dam, Thief will always stab harder then a monk. Round for

round, a monk natural dam will > more then a thief. However no one

wants to chop a mob down. By beating then down.

Monks skills are nice, but flurry cost (20-25) mv which is alot since we only

get 1mv per lvl. Kensi faster focus, and unless there is a change that I

don’t know its about the same amount of dam as regular focus that a non-

monk can do.

As alot of ppl have already talked about, Grip is a great skill. However the

2 round lag it does, and making monks have 0 attacks does hurt. Alias

put it best I believe.

I’m not saying grip should be = to stab, but for a prime Monk maybe show

some more love :)

(Most of been one of my longest posts)

On the side note ….

How many 5x40 or close to it do we have on the new classes???

Bards/Druids/Necros?

How many 5x40 or close to it do we have on Monks??? Nab & Dogs? 2?

leizu and daedalus and then stryx are druid 40 tards

forest guinex mandos and necro 40 tards

minstrel and tali are the only 40 bards that I know of

nab is the only monk

and then we have zildjian and blackula!!!! who are the only real players not using ANY old class :)

those fu cking thugs!

:roll:

Add Quake as Necro

I think there was another druid or necro …

Couple things.

First, there are a handful of +reduce dam items, but sadly most are drachma items.

Second, while gripping, you can still strike, and possibly kick the mob.

Third, I’m slowly working my way towards tard with bane, so hopefully sometime this decade I’ll make 5x40

Last - for old players and new ones alike who don’t know or who have forgotten. Web, and possibly some other dbuffs WILL NOT work until monk releases the grip. My guess is the reasoning behind this involves not wanting the monk to get webbed/hit with dbuff too.

I think only reduce dam eq are drachma, besides auto.

Yes you can strike after you grip … after two rounds on getting beat.

Hope you will be a monk to 5x50

Yea debuffs do not work when monks grips, seems like they don’t want

monks to get “hit” with any debuffs.

Theres the auto, theres a forge in Gossameringue, and theres 4 drachma items.

I know that anything else i try to do besides strike is lagged, but my strike always seems to hit pretty quick, lemme do a couple runs to see.

hell dont give them any ideas, its been hard enough tryin to get 40 levels per class

Forge in Gossameringue has been remove I believe.

Monks are fun. You just cannot compare monk to thief. Deathtouch was never meant to hit as hard as a stab. It has more options and better arena damage lb for lb. Like Krom said monk gets counterattack, no move cost strike, presage, flurry, and stalk which is like a perm hide. That doesnt even mention the handdmg and dmg reduction possibilities.

The only thing I would like to see is some move reduction to the monk skillset. Currently Dogs can’t even use the monk skills in a group. I run out of moves without even using haste or flurry. In the desert I have to brew potions or beg for refreshes. It has made the char almost solo and two man only. I do regret that. I had an idea about a spell for warriors, or it could be a prayer for monks to summon a mount that actually follows orders. I mount something and then it goes off in some random direction, costing the moves of my flesh golem and also wasting my moves and possibiy getting me attacked. If I don’t use a mount then by the time I get to my area I am cashed on moves. Laugh about the rogue shoes now boys.

In closing. I learned to live with the deathgrip lag. I expect and get ready for it. Using counterattack and petrified armor helps to hurt the mob. wish on shining star Someday there will be more movement options.

Mike

Crip. Strike = as the thief’s lvl goes up the harder they stab.

3x Stab now …. If they land it, the mobs defence drops and takes more dam.

I’m saying to give monks some more damage on grips as thiefs now have

3x stab. The mov thing sucks, considering flurry takes a bunch and same

with grip.

Monks can just buy dmg reduction at 40 tard, why spend dr eqs on it?

:lol:

Counterattack is no joke. It soaks an attack in addition to normal damage reduction and gives you a free hit besides. Added with flurry and strike and that’s a lot of damage a round. For solo I never use parry.

THAC0-wise, the monk is on par with warrior, which is world’s better than thief. Monk in first and second position gets mana, thief gets none anywhere. Thief circle costs moves and is prime only, monk strike is free and doesn’t limit you to using a piercing (smaller) weapon.

You can load down with +handdam with just a couple items, giving you more slots for AC/stat/regen items. Thieves have to eat up half their equipment slots for the same effect.

Contemplation… there’s nothing else in the game that even comes close to comparing to it. Its not a battle skill, but it’ll keep you in battle like nothing else.

Focus and Kensai don’t cost money to use, and don’t require a 30 drachma item to rent. There’s no limit to how many you can hold, and you don’t have to worry about running out. You don’t have to worry about poisoning yourself each time you use them.

Gravity doesn’t hurt, you don’t have to carry a raft, half penalties for being blinded….

What’s the problem again?

I’m not personally begging for more damage on monks deathtouch just up the hit percentage to that of deathgrip and Ill be happy. more damage does nothing if u dont hit first.

Alias

Wonder if Monks had the same +hit as Thief issue that was adjusted…

But with Monk, you would imagin that the thaco would be higher.

Well I’m pretty sure grip lvl25 gets stronger until lvl40. Just like stabs.

Thief Avatar 1 - 40 theirs get stronger

[/quote:1wym39l7]

not unless you’re referring to the +dam and +hit av modifiers, and those aren’t class-specific. Stab multiplier doesn’t increase for av levels that i’ve noticed, nor does stabdam cap go up.[/quote:1wym39l7]

Crippling Strike I believe is the name for thiefs for stabs…