A few different things related to area exploration have been asked for.
The first is a list of runs by class / damage type. The second is better difficulty ratings for areas. The plan is to take the information from this topic and follow ups to update the wiki with improved area data.
Starting at the beginning, I am interested in finding out what players would find most useful.
What would be a good list of run types? The two different methods I can come up with is (a) based on prime class, or (b) based on play style - blast, stab, follower, sustain. What would your suggestion be on good categorization.
We currently use the following designations for level difficulties - newbie, lowbie, mid, high, and very high. There is also a group, small group and large group modifier that is optionally used.
Is this the best system to use? If so could we define some level ranges for these designations. Newbie = 1 to 2x20, lowbie = 2x20 to 1x40, etc,.
I think a level based system which indicates the minimum level to explore an area and not get insta-killed might be better. The system would use numbers such as (1, 1x20, 4x20, 1x40, 3x40, av40).
Advice would be appreciated.
If you are thinking, what I think you are thinking about… ‘sustain’ - that’s a very subjective argument… sustainable for whom? 1x20 Thief? 4x40 Druid?
Maybe it would be smarter if your serious about categorising areas, not to grade the player entry level and type… but grade the mobs.
Essentially the two key factors are a mobs hit points and it’s damage per round to a player of a ‘similar’ ac. This is the only true guide I feel. Player power is very un-relative.
We might be talking about different things, so let me elaborate a little.
For the first item, the idea is to create a basic list of solo-able areas.
What would be good areas for a stabber to run, good areas for a blaster to run, good areas for a necro, or good areas for a tank. Level difficulty would be layered on top of this.
Shadow playground is a great area for a newbie ma/cl but would be terrible for a newbie wa/th.
For the solo list, I think that if we can pick out good stab areas, we could at least order them by difficulty, which would allow a player to try the next area in the list when they find their current area to be too easy.
The second part is categorizing all the different areas by some number(s). I understand that a mage prime will not be able to solo the same areas as a necro prime could. I would be interested if you could elaborate how you would rank an area based on AC/HP/Damage
I guess the core of my argument is about finding “the common system of measurement.” So you can compare apples with apples. Living after a fight essentially comes down to the mechanics of how much damage the mob does and how quickly it takes you to kill it. It’s not a perfect “ruler” but I think it’s easier to use the ruler of a “mob” than a “player.” Sometimes player experience can actually count for a lot of extra power. Players are not very relative. Mobs aren’t either, but they are far more relative than players.
Perhaps the real solution is for a nice imm to fix the con command. This addition would allow us to grade the mud areas far more effectively and take out the hard work of doing so.
When we con something, we need better information… maybe 3-4 messages, one each in relation to AC, DAM and HP’s. This information is given to the player in comparison of himself. Hence it becomes a relative guide.
con ogre
He is poorly armoured compared to you. (AC)
He is far more powerful than you. (DAM)
He is far more healthier than you. (HP’S)
Possible other information to add to consider…
Ether/Not Ether
Number of Attacks
Stab/Grip
con command could get better with levels, or by different spell books. To the immortals - sometimes it’s features like this players really want, not just xp bonuses. Features also make the game more palatable.
Given this information it would be easier to see what your dealing with. Group/Chop/Stab quite easy to see. What your wanting to do is painfully hard without a bit of work from the immortals.
The messages barely hit, hit, hard, extremely, massacre etc relate to ranges of hitpoints lost, hence it is somewhat possible to get an estimate of mob damage and mob hp. If Kirah is still around, I wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t already made some kind of calculator of sorts already, as good as it can be with the hidden game mechanics. It’s doable, but insanely problematic to rate things without a little bit more exposure of information from the immortal team.
While improving the consider command would IMHO be a great boon for the MUD, that is outside of my control.
I have spoken with Breeze about the consider issue. It is something he would like to see fixed, but it is not exactly as easy as logical comparison due to the way MUDL works.
What I can do is facilitate the creation of some lists that could help newer players figure out the areas within the mud that would be beneficial for them to explore.
I do not think that it is the 3x40+ that will be the ones who get a benefit from this, but those who are trying to figure out a path to their first 3x40 will.
Good on you for putting your hand up to do it Strago. As the saying goes… if it’s to be, it’s up to me.
I’ll put forward to you that hive is an exceptional place for newbie monks or low level players with a reasonable deathgrip. Just watch walking past the sentries, and be careful at the bottom. Don’t forget to bank before you bonk… bonk heads… cough
While this is probably not the largest obstacle for new players, I absolutely agree that this would be a huge help.
There are many players on sloth that are very helpful for things like this, but they’re not always available.
Some people also prefer reading a guide to the dubious prospect of asking for help on the internet.
I can’t imagine any reason for that really, the internet is such a friendly place.
I’ve also found study to be pretty useful for scoping out new areas to stab, as terrifying as it is to use in some places. Thievin is all about terror though!
I like your plan to put some zone info up on the wiki. My 2 cents is this, you only need to describe the mobs along a spectrum of hit points versus damage. There’s many classes but pretty much just 2 play styles. You either go for the fast damage approach, in which case you want mobs that have low hp and higher damage, or you go for the slower approach of mobs that have more hit points and do less damage. Trying to describe how the mobs are for each class of solo, is an over-complication imo, e.g. a zone that is good for solo thieves, will also be good for anyone who can put out a lot of fast damage one way or another.
I also happen to think the consider command works sufficiently enough, mob difficulty is a very subjective thing. Just my opinion.
So for example:
Land of the Firenewts
This is a good area to solo for a damage dealer between 1x20 and 1x40.
Mob Name | Health | Damage
Firenewt Worker | Low | Low
Firenewt Guard | Low | Low
Firenewt Sergeant | Medium | Low
Firenewt Raider | Medium | Low
Firenewt Commando | Medium | Medium
Firenewt Leader | Medium | Medium
Or would you group the mobs into something like:
Land of the Firenewts
This is a good area to solo for a damage dealer between 1x20 and 1x40. Mobs in this area are aggressive. Caster mobs in this area can deal a huge amount of damage, and it might be worth avoiding until after 1x40.
Mob Damage: Medium
Mob Health: Low
However you decide to do it. That’s what the wiki is for.
I do like what you have there. Hopefully it will encourage more newbies to look at the wiki for ideas on what to do next. Newbie is a relative term of course. All players benefit from sharing information.
You’ve missed Kzartaxen! :twisted:
I have made a little example for newbatia
Let me know of anything you might want to see differently.
Thanks for the assistance.
Strago, I really like this. Thanks for writing it.
Dude… SWEEET! :)~
Wish we had this for every area.
-Toxis
Will start working on that. But it will take a while to get there. Will be requesting a lot of help on this, as it is no small project.
Still have to figure out if this should just be part of the area description or not.
It might be better there.
this would probably be a good time to update the runs on the wiki
i know for 100% that there are some runs that just dont work
or are close but not exact.
I would be interested in getting some feedback on my ratings for the burbalangs. I did not have a newbie character to run this area, and did not run it as a newbie, my numbers may be off.
Breeze wrote: this would probably be a good time to update the runs on the wiki
i know for 100% that there are some runs that just dont work
or are close but not exact.
Hmmm. I compared the runs against ones from my records (records do not include all areas), and that led to updates for these areas:
Asheron
Barovia
Castle Ravenloft
City of the Undead
Crematory
Crypt
DemonWeb
Fire Plane
M.A.G.I.C.
Ogres
Onyx Tower
River of Blood
Sahaguins
Shadow Dale
Shadow Realm
Underdark (underwater part)
Web of Lolth
Good chance I messed at least one of them up, so please re-fix if you try one and it doesn’t work.
Thank you Atwell