Reasonable Behaviour: Language & Trolling

First thing I should say is that the vast majority of players on Sloth act impeccibly at all times.

Second thing I should say is that the following is entirely a personal opinion and so should be taken as that an expression of an opinion not some attempt to impose my standards on anyone else.

Bad Language:

At the age of 56 I seen and heard most things, very little upsets or offends me, I do however find some of the language I heard used on Sloth in recent months unpleasant and uneccessary.

Normally I ignor bad language, however I think players should remember that this isn’t (to the best of my knowledge) an adults only game.

Language that may be acceptable to your age group and in your culture may not be acceptable to everyone playing.

I was recently playing and in BH scribes a player was coming out with such a stream of foul language (using say) that I typed ‘sayed’ “language please!” the response I got was (and I paraphrase here) that it wasn’t on an open channel so they’d say what the **** they wanted to ****ing say, there was no ****ing rule against it.

This I felt was extreme but I didn’t feel arguing would help anything, nor did I want to open myself to more verbal abuse so I left and rented.

In my opinion however ‘say’ is an open channel, and it makes little difference about the ‘open/closed’ arguement anyway unless you personally know all others in any ‘closed’ channel and know they won’t be offended.

Trolling:

Trolling or flaming a player is to my mind deliberately attempting to start an arguement or wind someone up.

To a certain extent this is funny and I think is seen my all to be so, however there are occasions that it gets out of hand.

To give an example:

I recently popped a hard to pop spellbook, I didn’t need it so I gossiped anyone need —– sb?

I got a lot of response the first of which was a tell, the next a gossip, in that situation I don’t respond to tells so I gossiped back who got it … the first gossiper. Took the book to them and gave it to them.

The teller, then got upset, telled me repeatedly saying they had ‘won’ as they’d responded first and I now ‘owed them’ the book. That I should know the rules of the game and that offering the book on gossip was a contract and I was in breach of contract by not giving to them (mud lawyers eh?) … this followed by an hours worth of more such nonsense, including visioning, following, trying to loot my kills etc. Most of this time I just ignored them and let them get on with it, when I challenged their behaviour the response I got basically boiled down to I owed them the book, they’d carry on til I gave it to them and there was no rule against what they were doing.

Now if that was another player I knew and had a friendship with it might have been (at least to start with) funny and be seen as friendly banter or teasing, as it was, it was extrememly annoying, so context is as important here as action.

I don’t think for either of the above it would be possible to be prescriptive about what what language/behaviour is and isn’t acceptable, but I would be in favour of a general rule or statement saying that players should act responsibly and respectfully towards all other players and that offensive and abusive language or behaviour isn’t welcome.

Sorry this got so long … didn’t realise I had such a soap box :)

Anyways as I said, my opinion, take it or leave it as you wish.

Also to reiterate this isn’t as far as I can see a widespread problem, the vast majority of players do act responsibly at all times, its just annoying when it does happen.

just a short response:

regarding vulgarities on ‘say’ i don’t know if there’s any rules on it, but i do know some words are censored now on public channels.

here’s my peev with such generalized concensus on “exposing the young to vulgarities.” stop blaming others (games, movies, tv shows, etc.) for the problems in society. being exposed to a few choice vulgar words won’t turn a kid into an animal. the problem is with the family, so look there first. having said that, we do keep public channels, eg. gossip, auction, etc. clean

(2) what the person did could be construed as harassment, and i think that person’s probably a big moron….why don’t u post his name here :)

It is no other than Mustang!!!!!

Sorry I couldnt resist :twisted:

I think it’s funny that someone would spend an hour harassing you when there’s much more productive things they could have done with that time…. like actually LOOK for the spellbook.

I don’t agree with you about the language thing Mustang. There are 12 and 13 year olds who play Sloth, and I would not want to see language not because I think it will corrupt them, but beacuse if you are at all well-raised you would not use that language in front of a teenager, certainly not in a real life public place.

You point out the obvious that it is up to parents to raise their kids, which I do by not swearing in front of them, not allowing them to hang with kids who do and generally providing a decent but not too-protected environment. I don’t let any of my kids (13, 15 and 17) listen to most rap music beacuse the language is unnessecary and does not prepare them for the kind of real-life job i hope they get where they would be fired for using it (as I would be).

Net sad result is I won’t let my 13 year of 15 year old play Sloth due to the language of some folks, so we lost 2 players who want to play. I wouldn;t however let them hang with friends who talk like that so it would by hypocritical for me to break that rule just because it’s a game I play. Frankly, in real life I would have nothing to do with the folks who really cuss every 3 word on Sloth. I’m not telling anyone what to do, but I have left groups and rented beacuse of language even on grouptell.

To everyone who uses that language I would seriously ask you think about whether you would talk like that in front of you wife, kids, girlfriend, father, mother… If not i dont see why you would hide behind an online char and do it on Sloth. Ultimately you can think before you type, and using that language in any setting where you don;t know that the listener is OK with it (including open groups) is rude and selfish.

As for the language, I don’t believe say should be monitored, no more than I want someone policing what I say to my friends, even if we are in a public place where others can hear. If I shout to a friend from across a crowded restaurant, that’s different.

As for the spellbook, the only reason behavior like this is worth mentioning on the crier is if you include the character’s name so we can all have fun doing it back to him. It’s like giving us candy bars and putting them in a locked container, and refusing to give us the key. I’d rather just not have it in the first place, thankyouverymuch.

In general, the reality is, any time there’s a large number of strangers that we’re exposed to, a certain percentage of them will be idiots. That’s just the reality of life.

We follow a similar paradigm for profanity as real life. Think of public channels as prime time broadcast TV, and everything else as other forms of communication.

We have a policy about no profanity on public channels. We define that to be gossip, quest, auction, shout, and yell.

If you are in a room with someone who is using language that is inappropriate to you it is easy to leave. If you are in a group with someone who is doing this, you can also leave.

With that said, it is unfortunate that people use such vulgar language that people actually decide to take these actions. I would compare walking around the mud using vulgarity on say as similar to walking around the mall talking like that loud enough for other people to easily overhear you. The latter is really rude, even if you think it isn’t.

Note that the original poster said nothing about age. Though it seems very hard for some to understand, profane language is not just about protecting our kids from viewing, it is also a matter of personal preference for middle-aged adults.

I personally do curse like a sailor at times, but also try to be sensitive to those who take offense. You can, of course, have no regard for those around you especially on the mud.

I would also suggest that there are ways to gag people and/or profanity while still playing. It’s a lot easier on the mud where people in general wouldn’t be trying to avoid a personal profanity filter. I also believe in taking action rather than being a victim. Perhaps you could even post the scripts on our forums when you finish them.

Clink

As for the spellbook, the only reason behavior like this is worth mentioning on the crier is if you include the character’s name[/quote:3n76g53c]

I’m not sure I agree with you here, my reason for mentioning it without the name, indeed any of the names involved, was to raise the point that this sort of thing happens and that it would be helpful to have a reasonable behaviour rule to point to.

I’m not interested in arguing the ins and outs of any specific incident, if it came to that I’d just drop the whole thing, I don’t have a log of the incident, I said an hour, I didn’t actually time it, by definition what I said about the incident was my view on it and therefore entirely one sided, if I’d mentioned the names then I’d get into an arguement about what exactly happened, context, specifics and justifying what I’d written, lifes too short for that and my point is much more general than that.

As far as the language goes I’m not asking for for a ’language police’ to be set up that would be ridiculous, just that people think about what they’re typing and that if it gets out of hand there be a reasonable behaviour rule that could be referenced.

Thats my piece said, I don’t feel so strongly about it that I’m going to start a campaign or argue fervently and regularly on here.

Enjoy.

[/quote:js1nauv3]

My basic point is we all know idiots exist in this world, we have to deal with them from time to time, and we hope they go away or suddenly become a non-idiot. You were clearly dealing with one. I don’t see a reason to create a rule about it.

I think a ‘Don’t be stupid’ Rule would be kinda cool. Of course, I would have been banned years ago.

deleted most of original post - Mudder is not the same person I was speaking with on a similar matter, so this swearing thing has nothing to do with me.

I will say however that those who think that their youngsters (particularly in the teens) will somehow be shocked by the swearing on Sloth, then you need a reality check - unless your kid is homeschooled and doesn’t play with other kids at all, then I can pretty much guarantee they’ll hear FAR worse on the school playground or on the street or at the mall with their friends than they will ever hear on Sloth. This doesn’t mean it’s ok to swear like a trooper on Sloth’s public channels, but please realize that attempting to impose your values on others will generally not be received well, particularly if the offensive word(s) were not on a public channel.

If it really is a big issue for you, it is relatively simple to add a trigger to your client that will edit out specific words.

Have a nice f***ing day. :twisted:

thank you weasel for putting across my views more eloquently than i did :P

i’m not saying “don’t like it get the **** out of sloth!”

different people view swear words differently, and i really don’t see being desensitized to such words as being that big of a deal. now i’m not going to be teaching anyone how to parent their kids. i grew up around kids who were in gangs, took drugs, etc. it doesn’t mean i’ll follow them, as i had proper values (surprise surprise) instilled in me from young. I do cuss on the game, but most of the time it’s in jest at certain fellow mudders. saying “that was fing hilarious!” is very different from saying “God damned you fing ***hole go **** yourself!” my point is, cussing is harmless until it’s a personal attack. but i do get the point of the first post…where the focus was more on the behavior of the other party rather than swear words being used.

kids learn “bad” things all the time, and i really think that instead of saying “no you can’t do/say that coz u’re a kid and u have to listen to me coz i’m an adult” (like that really works) i think it’d be much better off making sure it doesn’t become them. Just because I curse, it doesn’t make me a punk.

just another few pointers, in response to Grue.

Fair enough, you keep your kids away because ppl on sloth cuss. But trying to put yourself on a moral high-horse is simply, retarded. Just because I choose to punctuate my sentences with a few choices, and you don’t, doesn’t make you any holier than thou. I’m sure you go around speaking all politically-correct to make sure you don’t offend anyone at all, refering to bald-people as “hair-deficient”, fat people as “unfortunately sized” ugly people as “esthetically disabled” etc.

Fact is, sloth is a community. There will be people who swear, and will be people who don’t. You know what u were getting into. If you feel it is not appropriate for your kids, you can always buy some power rangers video games for them. Trying to get everyone to submit to your “values” isn’t gonna cut it very well.

Just one more point–> this is the internet, where games and chatrooms are a release/retreat for most people. if you think people behave exactly the way they do online and irl, you must be nuts. Most people hide behind an online identity that’s probably extremely different.

You’re starting to behave like kyle’s mom on southpark….and we all know what cartman thinks of her

thought the nick was familir so i went back to another thread and found this :

Grue wrote:

“Compared to all that I think Splork has actually been pretty reasonable. How about just apologizing and acknowledging you have been an asshole?”

nice choice of words there

:twisted:

I was always under the impression there was reasonable leeway in the rules for dealing with harassment (referring to the sb guy who used tell instead of gossip here), personally I’d have webbed/silenced/blinded/slept them, and I doubt I’d be encountering punishment for it…toss could be fun too :twisted:

Wouldn’t go to the point of killing them or anything of course, unless it got totally out of hand after they found their way out of the webs (as in direct attacks, self defence is a wonderful thing).

Not saying this is a bad idea, but it is a bad precident.

ie. You actually create a script that does mass substitutions:

wtf -> what is

fuck -> ****

asshole -> buddy

ahole -> buddy

etc…

That actually works to promote cursing. Even more funny would be recommending that people sensitive to this download and install the profanity filter to their scripts. You don’t want to know how many people don’t understand how scripts work. Or even clients for that matter. It often seems the worst cursers are the best at writting scripts.

Not to mention the folks we have dancing around filters currently.

I know some folks on Sloth are a little coarse, but typically I’ve found that being polite works pretty well. I’ve seen fairly good responses to things like ‘Please don’t curse like that, I have children.’ At the same time, lack of manners is typically met with more of the same. And Mustang can give more of the same rather handily…

Mustang’s correct… sloth is pretty clean compared to some of the real world. However, kid’s are impressionable and undermining a parent’s authority is a serious problem. You want to teach them what is unacceptable behavior before they join the workforce and find out the hard way. At least if they watch their language around their parents, they’re capable of doing it in a place of business.

Dragging this all onto the crier is just mudslinging at this point. There’s nothing that says you can’t curse privately. However, you run the same risks as real life in that someone may overhear you and be somewhat offended. In real life, you would probably simply apologize and forget about it, not publish it in the local paper.

I think that’s all I have to say about that…

I don’t particularly like seeing cursing, but I think the omnipresent bad grammar and spelling may be considerably more harmful to the kiddies. If someone writes a script to correct those, let me know.

zMud has a spellchecker built in. Wintin might be able to integrate with the spellchecker/grammar checker from MS, but Frobisher would be the best to speak to that point. However, most people will ignore the red squigly lines when in a hurry on the mud. ;)

ack! red squiggly line spam! hehe

Anyhow, I’d rather see natural bad grammar than text that had been converted to bad grammar by the lame suggestions given by the MS grammar checker.

BTW, I fully understand that my kids hear cussing on the school bus, at school, at the skating ring, at the skateboard park… This is not about protecting my kids from language. This is about my not being prepared to endorse a place that has it when I am trying to raise them not to cus. It is exactly the same as not allowing them to play at people’s houses where the parents use the f-word the whole time, which I don’t. This is not a moral question for me, if you want to cus go ahead, hell there are worse things you could be doing. Just don’t be upset if I ask you not to do it around me - that is a lifestyle choice I have made. Also understand that it is hard for me to recommend to my kids to play Sloth and then have them say to my wife, “Do you know that there are guys who are always fing this and fing that on the game Dad plays.”

I actually don’t believe most of the people who cus on Sloth do it in real life. They do it here because they are anonymous and won;t have their boss/kids/parents/wife/partner call them on it here.

I here bad language at work, I ask people to stop. I hear bad language at a family restaurant with my family, I’ll go to the table and ask them to stop. Why should it be any different in the Inn on BH? I respect you right to cuss in private, can’t you respect my request that you not do it in public? I don;t actually think I’m being unreasaonable.

NOOOOOOOO!!

If you enable a spellchecker/grammer checker you might as well #gag autolycos

the world will die without my typos!!!!

*cackle

Anyhow, I’d rather see natural bad grammar than text that had been converted to bad grammar by the lame suggestions given by the MS grammar checker.[/quote:2jsa823l]

bald-people as “hair-deficient”, fat people as “unfortunately sized” ugly people as “esthetically disabled” [/quote:31qup4e2]

Sooo, this makes you 3 for 3 huh AA???

MUHAHAHAHA

Also I don’t hide behide my char in games. What u see is what u get in RL

and in Sloth. U should know, and a lot of ppl that I’ve met can also agree.

: )-~

dup Post … got some error when posting the first time …

obviously nobody would really want their kids hanging around other kids whose parents swear every other word.

but you wouldn’t go to their house and tell them to quit swearing so that your kid can hang out with them either.

if you feel the game is inappropriate for your kids, then by all means keep them away. but don’t expect the game to “appropriate” itself so they can play. it’s like expecting porn to not contain nudity or sex just so kids can watch them for the plot.

and by the way, leaf, this isn’t aaron

Damn I would be pissed if porn lost the nudity….what would i do with myself? One can only watch so many cartoons :o

You’d be lost if they passed a law saying all the people in porn had to have a pulse… :wink:

ouch, that one is worthy of 2 points :!:

besides no worries, if the porn industry suffered any major losses and was removed from ez access, the internet would crumble and decay into a vast wasteland, and all we would be left is auction sites and cheesey text adventure games. :twisted:

long live torrent :!:

This is about my not being prepared to endorse a place that has it when I am trying to raise them not to cus. [/quote:3hm1sm69]

I don’t let mine on it because I don’t need her wasting her life away getting no homework done.

I thought parts of your first post were as offensive as anything else I’ve seen on the crier, and I know I’m a strict parent. On the other hand, I agreed with nearly everything in the second.

I don’t ban any particular style of song from our house (ok, except for bluegrass), but I do reserve the right to reject or delete any song I find that’s offensive, no matter what the genre is. I teach my kid not to swear, but I’ll be shocked if she doesn’t. As long as she knows not to do it at home, I’ve done my job - taught her to be able to control it. When I’m at work, it’s the only time I don’t worry about my language, unless I’m on the phone with customers. I actually read an article in a SQL newsletter that said when you’re interviewing for a job, cursing isn’t always bad because people want to know if you’re going to fit in with them.

to be honest, i’ve yet to see excessive swearing on the mud, in my 13 yrs on the game. most of us do keep our cussing in check, and if we do know that there are kids in our groups, would try our best not to do it at all.

what got me pissy was the fact that Grue is trying to act all righteous and elitist by putting himself in a class separate from “cussers”.

Laugh, deleted my original post as would enrage people :)

Western society has down the tubes and the acceptance of foul language is just another symptom of that. If my opinion offends you too bad.

By the way, I hire 3 to 4 new poeple a year, and help interview a lot more. If someone cussed in a job interview (I mean seriously foul language) they will not make the next interview. Maybe I am hiring for different jobs, but if I sent one of my staff into a meeting and they used the langauge that people have used on the crier in the past, they would be escorted from the building and I can’t run that risk as it reflects on me. Maybe a different work environment (I work for the IT shop of a corporation), but it certainly would never be acceptable here except to vent off behind closed doors.

yeah and we should all annoint you as the next pope then

Hey, I’d rather aspire to be the Pope than Jay Z.

Grue seems to be trolling his own thread.

yeah, i’m sure the altar boys would love for u to be the pope too

Western society has down the tubes and the acceptance of foul language is just another symptom of that.[/quote:2lqa3n61]

I’d rather accept foul langauge than drinking and driving. Society going down the tubes is matter of perspective.

If someone cussed in a job interview (I mean seriously foul language) they will not make the next interview. [/quote:2lqa3n61]

I never suggested reciting lines from Pulp Fiction, it’s all about showing you can fit in with the people you’re interviewing with. We swear all the time at work (a software company), but not when dealing with customers - it’s about self control.

I can’t find a way to include this as part of my opinion, so I’ll just include it because it’s so damn funny - our IT guy IM’d our customer service chick with “My dick is so big it rescued 3 people from the floods in New Orleans”.

That is funny… but you have to be real careful who you say that kind of thing to. Very easy to get hit with a sexual harassment suit for that kind of thing.

Another thing Grue may want to consider is that there is not a single culture on this game. Different standards exist everywhere. For many years I was looked down upon in the military because I didn’t curse. I was looked at completely sideways in Germany because I didn’t drink. Both are habits that I eventually picked up because it’s almost impossible to avoid doing so. That didn’t make any of those people evil, just different. Though admittedly, it took me a long time to get out of the habit of cursing in casual conversation.

Just because people don’t adhere to your strict morale standards doesn’t mean they’re any better or worse than you. It just makes them different. There is no universal morale high ground when you’re dealing with the entire world. Most are willing to be considerate if asked politely, even Mustang admitted as such and he’s as coarse as they come.

I’m curious how far you’ve travelled in your life. You seem to have a very narrow view of things.

That is funny… but you have to be real careful who you say that kind of thing to. Very easy to get hit with a sexual harassment suit for that kind of thing.[/quote:dt5zl6b7]

She complained to the HR guy, who told her she was just ticked her “my vagina is so big” jokes in response didn’t go over so well.

In reality, she has said numerous times if anyone is sued for harassment in our company, she’d be first on the list - but obviously you have to know whether you can get away with saying this stuff or not.

If you mean me, I’ve lived in 2 countries on different continents, went to public schools, university for 6 years, lived in 7 cities (5 in the US, east and west coast), travelled to 5 countries, 27 states in the US in 5 years, fly 4 times a month, worked for 2 state agencies, work with 12 national groups and 4 senators offices, ran a conuslting firm for 12 years and have consulted for over 300 companies, written over 20 applications, worked for film crews, done professional sound engineering, done studio recording and played in 7 professional bands. I’m fairly well-travelled, and have no illusions about the real world. I have been in many settings where people not only swear but do far worse things.

What is at issue is whether it is right because everyone does. If everyone in the army had sex with sheep would that make it acceptable? As my grandmother always said, if your friends told you to stick your head in the fire would you do it? Moral lines are not determined by human norms, if they were the genocide in Rwanda would be acceptable by Rwandan standards.

It may sound silly to compare cussing to those kinds of actions, but the raelity is that 50 years ago the language used today in schools, the work place and on TV would not have been tolerated. Everyone has these romantic visions of 1950s America, the Golden Age. Well you know what, that ‘innocence’ was predicated on social norms that we no longer accept.

What you realism I call moral compromise (and this is obviously way beyond language on Sloth). The next push in the United States will be lowering the age of consent, AKA the Califonia Man-Boy love project, and legalizing incest, and there are already pushes underway to do that. Why should cussing be OK in any normall society, but not OK in rap and hip-hip, and if it is OK in that music, do we also accept all the other social norms that music espouses.

By the way, I’m not heated up about this, I just think there is a broader moral issue, and frankly I think the United States and a lot of other countries are creating a monster they will not be able to contain.

Flame if you want (I’m sure you will), but these are not the cloistered views of a sheltered prig. You may not agree with them, and some of you probably see me as the worst of the right-wing (although I am more politically left than anything), but this is not a Christian home-schooled perspective. This is a political activist perspective. Stand for what you beleieve. Let everyone do what they like if it feels good and is hurting noone is not a belief system, it’s abdication of social responsibility.

Actually, I was basing my views on the fact that this thread is titled ‘Reasonable Behavior’ and you seem to be of the opinion that people on this game should be held to a higher morale standard than the people you claim to deal with every day….

Not much reasonable in that.

While I can appreciate your opinion Grue, remember that there are people here who have been playing sloth for well over a decade, and it seems suddenly you are here telling them how you think they should and should not act while on sloth. Some may resent that. Maybe that’s doesn’t seem fair to you, but that’s life. As mentioned, there are rules about swearing on the public channels, but beyond that it’s really a case of tolerance rather than making others conform to your standards. Again, you can create triggers to replace specific words with asterixes if you wish - that way everybody is happy being themselves and some of the more boisterous players wont have to shout “I’m being repressed!”

:wink:

Mustang: GREAT analogy - “.it’s like expecting porn to not contain nudity or sex just so kids can watch them for the plot. "

And Grue, I just saw this on one of your recent comments:

" If my opinion offends you too bad. "

WTF? You’ve just been asking everyone to conform to your standards, then turn around and say [i:1i95yvad]that[/i:1i95yvad] when someone has to say something against it??? Well fark you, I’m actually inclined to start swearing regularly on ‘say’ after that.. :twisted:

Regarding your statements about escorting your staff from the building for foul language at work - you need to realize that Sloth is not an office or workplace (well, unless you’re a coder I guess) and that this is an informal environment that does not have the same etiquette as an office - perhaps you should take off your ‘I’M THE BOSS’ hat and be a little more tolerant of others?

Unfortunately you’ve got most people here on the defensive, and it’s hard to get anyone to consider your point of view without bias once they are in that mode.

I’ll add that I do appreciate where you’re coming from - it sounds like me with some coding changes nudge 12345 you’re probably on the 6th level on Kohlberg’s moral stages too hehe.

besides getting into why that’s just a plain silly comparison (one is wrong due to genetic reasons, the others are purely personal bias) you seem to be missing the point that ‘morality’ as such is stricly a matter of subjective experience - you and I might have widely different opinions on what constitutes morality (see more on this below)

Stand for what you beleieve. Let everyone do what they like if it feels good and is hurting noone is not a belief system, it’s abdication of social responsibility.[/quote:1m6gvq92]

actually, that is the only rational belief system (as it harms none, do what you will). Anything else is statist nonsense and leads inexorably to the sort of Orwellian nightmare the British have (ASBO’s, etc).

I think we should just bring this to ebony tower and let the best man stfu.

smoke :twisted:

a) This process is called debate, you need to be able to distance your participation in from how you feel.

b) I fully realize I come across as being arrogant, that is part of my intention. No one seemed to have an issue with that when people were posting 2 page posts with 27 f words saying basically f you and this how I am. That is as or more arrogant in my opinion, but everyone defended their right to post.

c) I am not expecting anyone to act on Sloth based on morals in the real world, this is now a broader debate. In fact. frankly, I don;t even expect people to temper their language, Sloth has the mechanisms to handle that, and I am sure if anything is over the top some imm will deal with it.

d) I have never asked for anyone to be noshouted or actually ever complained about anyone’s language online. If it gets too offensive I simply turn gossip off, leave the group or channel, or rent. Nor will I ever. On the other hand I don;t see why I should pretend I don’t find it offensive. There are posts here I have found offensive and unnessecary, and I will always speak up about those.

As to all the stuff about escorting people out of the building, I did not start that part of this thread, I am simply telling you that in every environment I have worked in or consulted in it is not acceptable, and yes we have had people escorted from the building in the last month for exploding in a staff meeting (not mine) and spewing a string of obscenities when they had badly done by. The result is that at least in most professional environments the circumstances never justify the behavior, the best you could hope for was being written up. If you have an issue with that I can send you our HR departments address and you can tell THEM how much they have offended you.

Yeah at this point I am trolling. Amazing how it’s ok for others, however, but suddenly I am arrogantly offending everyone. Or is it that this is all a little too close to home? :)

Anyway, enough. It is clear that no-one wants to debate this intelligently (poke). :? If you can’t take the heat…

BTW, if you don’t like my views you can always not read the thread. Isn’t that the same as leaving a group or room, or turning gossip off? :wink:

“actually, that is the only rational belief system (as it harms none, do what you will). Anything else is statist nonsense and leads inexorably to the sort of Orwellian nightmare the British have (ASBO’s, etc).”

OK I lied, couldn’t let this one pass. What about when behavior harms society? And who decides when someone is being hurt? If your next dor neighbor is having consentual sex with their 18 year daughter is that acceptable? Every society criminalizes that behavior, but it can easily be argued that it harms noone? Does pornography harm noone? What about the documented cases of woman being abused in the ‘industry’? When you have an affair does it not harm your wife/husband?

Two of those are rapidly becoming acceptable norms in US society, the other is still abhored. Who decides?

who decides? ME! :twisted:

btw, what happened to Mudder? He/She/It started this.. heh

Laugh, now you see THAT I can respect :)

On the other hand I don;t see why I should pretend I don’t find it offensive. There are posts here I have found offensive and unnessecary, and I will always speak up about those.

[/quote:3uj2fs36]

I have no issue with this at all, nor do am I offended by your attitude or believe you shouldn’t be posting this. There’s very little you’ve said after your first post that I thought were offensive viewpoints. However, what you started out saying, and have seemed to attempt to justify, comes across as “anyone who listens to rap or isn’t taught that all swearing is evil will never be able to hold down a good job”, and that’s not the reality many of us live in.

In walks Weasel in his long black judgey type robe with a obscenely over dramatised gavel..

Weasel looks at you strangely ( O)(o )

and screams GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!!

in this world he is

Judge, Jury, and Ankle Biter

who decides? ME! :twisted:

btw, what happened to Mudder? He/She/It started this.. heh[/quote:16eua5tp]

In walks Weasel in his long black judgey type robe with a obscenely over dramatised gavel..

Weasel looks at you strangely ( O)(o )

and screams GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY!!

in this world he is

Judge, Jury, and Ankle Biter

who decides? ME! :twisted:[/quote:3aco6z8l][/quote:3aco6z8l]

Damn straight - and don’t you forget it!

…now THAT’S a gavel! [img:3aco6z8l]http://www.huntingground.freeserve.co.uk/style/arrowdown.gif[/img:3aco6z8l] :twisted:

[img:3aco6z8l]http://demon.twinflame.org/images/blogpics/grimweapel.jpg[/img:3aco6z8l]

..i love photoshop :D

I am simply telling you that in every environment I have worked in or consulted in it is not acceptable[/quote:h7vhkzn1]

This is actually what I was referring to earlier. My point was simply that this game is not frequented solely by those who are accustomed to your environment, and even if it was, this they would not be working or consulting while they’re here. It is a more relaxed and open environment, and it should be… it’s only a game, not something we’re getting paid to do.

People will act here much as they act in any other public place. That may or may not normally include swearing. Most will make at least some attempt to moderate themselves on sloth due to the restrictions on public channels. However, at that point, they’re already being restricted from their normal freedoms during off-duty hours. Some more than others.

While it’s normally not a big thing for to ask them to be considerate of your preferences, it seems unreasonable to force yours upon them simply because it’s not tolerated in your environment. Then you have made yourself the one who decides what is right and wrong. You’ve turned it from a consideration into an obligation… and that’s akin to making it work.

No one is trying to make this a job for you, they’re just asking that you give them the same consideration that they are giving you.

[i:2sv05g9r]“I have no issue with this at all, nor do am I offended by your attitude or believe you shouldn’t be posting this. There’s very little you’ve said after your first post that I thought were offensive viewpoints. However, what you started out saying, and have seemed to attempt to justify, comes across as “anyone who listens to rap or isn’t taught that all swearing is evil will never be able to hold down a good job”, and that’s not the reality many of us live in.”[/i:2sv05g9r]

Oh Lord no, and I apologize if anyone took that. Heck, my middle son’s greatest ambition is to record a hip-hop album (hopefully cleanish), and I have ton’s of friends who cuss like troopers, etc.

Please understand, BTW, often I set out to make a point, knowing it will rile people. Honestly some folks have taken this a bit too seriously!

btw, what happened to Mudder? He/She/It started this.. heh[/quote:1ao1iq46]

perhaps mudder = Grue in disguise? erm oops getting an identity crisis now :)

I feel I must apologise to you all for starting this thread, it was intended as a gentle ’lets all think about what we’re doing’ nudge, and a suggestion to make an unwritten rule (the lets all not be stupid rule I think someone said) a written rule, its not a big issue on Sloth, problems are few, far between and effectively well policed by players in the most part.

To Grue: I’m sorry but reasoned arguement has never worked on forums, you can reason all you like, but you will never convince.

To Weasle: I’d love to know who you think I was (re your post about 2 pages ago)

To 12345: Nice rationality and voice of reason, anyone taking much notice?

To all: Lets not fix whats not broken; lets not fight over how to or if we should fix what isn’t actually a big deal to most players.

now I really will leave this to you lot, lets leave the thread to fall of the recents list and be consigned to history, arguing further won’t actually achieve anything

Mudder

to grue:

since when was this ever a “debate”? Most of us here can debate with the best, but your original post was just a case of you telling us how you think and how you’re so much superior to the rest of us and we should all bow down to your will.

so u’ve been to many countries and travel alot. big freaking deal. I travelled to 17 countries last year alone, meet diplomats all over, work with people who hold multi-million dollar recording contracts, and guess what? They swear too. If you wanna go back to the 1950’s, I suggest you resurrect Hitler while you’re at it, and also go lie in the path of the nuclear bomb in Hiroshima.

This is a freaking game for crying out loud. If you’re trying to be a political activist on a silly text game, then you’re more retarded then I thought. Maybe you have too much time and should take up another hobby, like learning to whank with your feet. Geezus. Why don’t u start a campaign against the killing of cats and rats ingame too as it might just influene the young to act the same irl? rolls eyes

WHAT? Cats are being killed ingame?? :shock: OMIGOD! Why didn’t anybody tell me!

This must end NOW!

..or not.

Oh, it’s even worse Weasel. They’re killing ferrets on Valk :wink:

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

[img:2jjf2sl7]http://cakili.image.pbase.com/image/49303299.jpg[/img:2jjf2sl7]

Laugh, I take nothing in Sloth seriously :) I’m not the one who is so enraged here that he can’t even type slowly enough to use punctuation or check his spelling, bud. I think YOU need to take it easy, gonna burst a blood vessel or something! You are easily 10 times more worked up on this than I’ve ever been. Have drink, go hang out with some of those diplomats and multi-million dollar musician friends of yours 8)

I think we need to have a Chinese Restuarant in BH, then you can kill the cats and sell them to the cook for coins. We could call it the Nervous Kitty.

STEP 1: remove excess fur from cat.

[img:pw7ufrag]http://www.geocities.com/carpetarcade/big12.jpg[/img:pw7ufrag]

I think we need to have a Chinese Restuarant in BH, then you can kill the cats and sell them to the cook for coins. We could call it the Nervous Kitty.[/quote:lrdlbaa1]

do u teach your kids to be racists too?

please i do hope u never log onto the game again

snap

No, but I do teach them to have a sense of humor. BTW, I have a multi-racial family and have been arrested before defying racist laws. You on the other I doubt have ever done anything in your miserable little life to fight racism in any way.

BTW in what way is pointing out that cat-meat is a traditional Chinese dish racist, or do you have some quaint belief it’s a myth? Do you know that St Bernard’s are also considered a delicay in China. Here is a link you may want to look at:

http://www.messybeast.com/eat-cats.htm

If I had written “I think we need to have a British Fish and Chips shop in BH, the you can catch fish and sell them to the cook. We can call it Nervous Walleye”, would that be racist? Or is it just that you think it is is racist if it refers to a race other than your own?

Grow up!

No need to apologise mudder, your not responsible for other people’s actions, even though you may have played in setting them up! cackle.

I agree with mudder…. This post could of ended after 12345 made his post. It was very well put, either he is a un Ambassador/hostage Negotiator or he musta had 50 years experience dealing with his mother in law or something. Heh.

12345 for President!!!

kill him.

How about we have a BH hotdog stand and then we can kill dogs, and, and ..err ..nevermind. :twisted:

The only thing funny in this thread was the comment about the golden era of the US being the 40’s. It may have been a golden age for big-band music, but I wouldn’t want to revert our current society to follow their ’norms’. People may feel nostalgia for the cars or the good science fiction literature or the years they spent during those decades in school, but in my opinion that’s all it is - nostalgia.

You may think there was no crime, no homosexuals, no domestic abuse, etc. but it all existed. Is that healthy, to ignore the social problems that do exist? I’d say we’re better off now, even with all the individualism that you seem to despise.

I agree Charles, the 40’s were just as violent as today, just the news media didnt get their jollies off telling everyone.. Back then it was a tragedy, not a ratings booster…

as far as the rest of these posts go.. who really gives a ****?

I only check to see the cool stuff Weasel comes up with :twisted:

The critter with the scythe is a classic, I agree.

It makes me miss our ferret, that was the best pet. Coco the original family dog was a close second, and Cliff the little dog who went ice skating with us would have to be third.

I need more sleep…

This Topic is getting close to 100.

I’m also getting close to 500 posts! Maybe I’ll be an Avatar Poster!!!

#gag will

cast ‘sleep’ 12345

Cast ‘blind’ Autolycos

Cast ‘demon bind’ Autolycos

Cast ‘firestorm’

Cast ‘frostbolt’

wear robe

You climb into a robe.

wear hat

You place a wizard hat on your head.

cast ‘Lvl 3 Eroticism’ Leaf

Leaf turns into a real beautiful woman.

Bloodninja appears in a puff of smoke.

Bloodninja slaps 12345.

Bloodninja yells ‘Don’t EVER do that again!’

Bloodninja yells ‘That’s MY line!’

Bloodninja disappears in a puff of smoke.

hehe

lmfao… nice..

10 points to 12345..

-1000 to Will..

face it Will.. you suck

I’ve decided to call this the Curse of Grue. It’s a true story, which is sad, but it’s also kinda funny, so I figured I’d post it.

The Curse of Grue

Last night I was sleeping happily in my bed. I must have been sleeping kinda hard because I was dreaming and that’s an unusual thing for me. I think it started about halfway through my dream…

I forget exactly what I was saying in my dream… But it was a curse word of one form or another. As soon as I said it, a giant invisible hand popped out of nowhere and clubbed me across the face. I sat bolt upright in bed and thought ‘What the hell was that?’

Not a great way to wake up. While odd, it was still the middle of the night, so I went back to bed.

Have you ever had a dream, woke up, and when you went back to sleep continued the same dream? Strangely, this is exactly what happened. I popped back into my dream. Even more strangely, the people in my dream seemed to have noticed that I had left.

‘What happened to you?’

‘Strangest thing… this damned’ wham! Sitting up awake again.

This is starting to get annoying. Haven’t got time to worry about it though. Back to sleep. Back in the same dream, everyone’s still confused. Now I’m annoyed and self-conscious about cursing. Not the best equation for a good nights sleep.

I figure I woke up around 10 times in the space of a couple hours. Even more ironic? I’ve never wanted to curse so much in my life. I was tired, pissed off, and the first thing that came to mind was my dear dear dear friend Grue.

So… beware the Curse of Grue. Don’t let this happen to you. :lol:

LOL, that is funny :) Hope I wasn’t responsible!