Mornin’ folks,
First of all thanks Ulmo for running quite a memorable quest.
It’s the first time I’ve ever heard of beating a hole in a skiff with a mace =)
So yeah, as I’m sitting here watching the quest rewards slowly getting handed out, the Muse of Muds came to me with an idea.
For quest reward distribution, should the imms deem us worthy of receiving such, how about transporting the group to a mini ‘quest’ area consisting of two or three rooms, with maybe the quester giving us a post quest story or something.
The area would be akin to the dreamweaver, serving as a ‘shop’ type room with whatever items the imms decide to stock it with. Only one/limited numbers of each item. The currency would be a specialized quest token that each member receives during the quest. Each person would get at least one to spend, with honorable mentions getting two or more. Quest token poofs upon leaving the area, and no way of getting back, so no hording of said tokens.
Prices would be in the low single digits. Sbs/lower quality items would cost 1, with higher items costing 2 or 3. You would be able to query the items yourself at your leisure, and pick what you want instead of waiting for 30 minutes as other people pick. Given limited item availability, the longer it takes for you to make a decision, the higher chance that the ‘better’ items will be claimed by others. Afkers/bots would also end up ’listing’ an empty room. You can even make it like the magic room, that rumbles and poofs after a set amount of time.
Potential Problems:
Little chance for those who didn’t get an honorable mention of getting high/random quest eq from the top picks looking them over.
Yet another ‘currency’ of some form, so potential griping of ‘but drachma already exists, don’t need another quest currency’. Heck, one of the items can even be a shard of 15 drachma, so you can pick drachma over sbs or items
Just an idea. =)
Mornin’ folks,
First of all thanks Ulmo for running quite a memorable quest.
It’s the first time I’ve ever heard of beating a hold in a skiff with a mace =)
So yeah, as I’m sitting here watching the quest rewards slowly getting handed out, the Muse of Muds came to me with an idea.
For quest reward distribution, should the imms deem us worthy of receiving such, what if we were transported to a mini area consisting of two or three rooms, with maybe the quester giving us a post quest story or something.
The area would be akin to the dreamweaver, serving as a ‘shop’ type room with whatever items the imms decide to stock it with. Only one/limited numbers of each item. The currency would be a specialized quest token that each member receives during the quest. Each person would get at least one to spend, with honorable mentions getting two or more. Quest token poofs upon leaving the area, and no way of getting back, so no hording of said tokens.
Prices would be in the low single digits. Sbs/lower quality items would cost 1, with higher items costing 2 or 3. You would be able to query the items yourself at your leisure, and pick what you want instead of waiting for 30 minutes as other people pick. Given limited item availability, the longer it takes for you to make a decision the higher chance that the ‘better’ items will be claimed by others.
Potential Problems:
Little chance for those who didn’t get an honorable mention of getting high/random quest eq from the top picks looking them over.
Yet another ‘currency’ of some form, so potential griping of ‘but drachma already exists’. Heck, one of the items can even be a shard of 15 drachma, so you can pick drachma over sbs or items
Just an idea.[/quote:1bubxhbj]
It also prevents players from feeling shunted when they don’t get picked, or from other players from picking favorites.
Acedia: good nick length
thats not a bad idea at all, it would cut down on the time for splitting loot dramatically. would require a lot of effort tho.
I led and participated in many quests and i would say its very hard to come up with rewarding system that makes everyone satisfied. I dont like very much when leader have to pick mvps, caus there can always be favoritism and also caus leader cant possible notice everything and in the big quest groups. As I have my hands full with trying to keep whole group in one room, keep people alive, raise dead members, trying to figure what we kill next and where, I take many jobs done by other players like granted yet those are very important too. Solving quest riddles, getting dead members who are not with group, running and finding gateable, and all basic jobs like trying to heal tank in all that spamm and blasting correct mob and so on…
My suggestion would be not to hand any ‘quest eq’. Give drachma, everyone same amount. If there is someone who can be seen as mvp, and everyone agrees, yes, that person did a lot, give them a bit more drachma. We have drachma shops with eq slightly better than ingame. Add more eq there and we wont need quest items.
Giving out eq as rewards is not bad, but lets make it all ingame that can be poped or forged. Pick order can be based on random. If you didnt got item you wanted, well, its not quest limited thing, you can get it later. Less to dissapoinment. Also would be nice to have something like ’token of any spellbook’ and ’token of any component’ for lower type of reward than eq. Exchange them with immortal for any spellbook or cp that loads in game on mob. Flame on.
I like the ’token of any spellbook’ idea. It would also be relatively simple to automate the token/sb exchange so people didn’t have to wait for a willing imm.
The work behind the quest was fun, thanks for the entertaiment for sure.
Though….
For so many reasons you have to get off the Leader, Tank, Mvp(buddies and friends) system of eq handout.
Too many people have been playing for a long time here, and have nothing to show from questing. Thats unacceptable. Your player base is more than 5 people.
It sucks for the 30+ members do the work together and watch the same 5 get rewards quest after quest.
Stick with the drachma system and make it work, update the shops more than once every year or 2, and an entire quest group can benefit. If anyone wants help with eq ideas, id love to help and brainstorm.
If your going to hand out eq, than make it so the quest group can benefit as a whole. Perhaps handing out a comp, spellbook, or specific ingame item tailored to each player in the quest group, along with a universal chunk of drachma. Giving additional drachma to a leader and a tank is always a great idea.
I saw blaster run quest rewards once where you had to pick a bag. It was like 30 bags. Example “I pick bag 14”. Some had quest eq, some had regular stuff. The randomness leveled the playing field for the whole group.
And seriously would it really kill you guys to hold a “quest” and give out ample “quest eq”. At least once a year, like a CHRISTMAS QUEST.
Thanks as always for the hard work on building quests. Take an ounce of that energy and put it into eq rewards, and this mud will rock each and every time a quest is held.
Mornin’ again folks,
Hm, perhaps I am a bit unclear. I was merely suggesting a distribution system for post quest ‘rewards’, whatever they may be: the subject of what actually gets handed out, if anything, is a touchy one, one that I don’t want to touch with a ten-foot halberd. Heck, the reward can be tokens of instant teleport to a fire room full of vicious massacring kobold sages, so long as it doesn’t take two hours to distribute =)
I’m thankful that the Imms even run quests, which I’m sure are very stressful to plan and execute, and that we even get anything at all.
Player discontent with the order of distribution and/or choice of rewards we attained seems to be key issues, which can theoretically be circumvented with the system I’m proposing. You could make getting the rewards anonymous, as in you can’t see who got how many tokens/credit, or which item they got. Imms can distribute tokens as they see fit, taking the decision of ‘mvp’ or whatnot out of player hands, which usually takes forever and leaves a sour taste in everyone’s mouths. Give players five minutes to query the shopkeeps, let them see what’s there, check their own eq and think about it, then open it to ‘sale’. No more voting using gjobs, no more making an already tapped out leader make ‘mvp’ or whatnot decisions, which will be blasted anyways as showing favoritism, favoring clannies or appeasing the loudest/whinyist players.
Some people want eq. Let them pick whatever eq the Imms feel we deserve. Whether it’s ingame or drachma, it’s not our call to make. Others want drachma. Make one of the items a drachma token of x value, where x is a random integer value between -10 and the current value on the counting thread. Others seek spellbooks. Cram a few harder to pop ones in there, like that pesky mass detect food one I’ve never seen. Heck, you can even put all of them in there (that will be quite a list), and use that as your ‘any sb’ token.
I only seek a more efficient and as impartial distribution method as possible: a two hour post quest time with people waiting around hoping to get picked only to gripe about it later is a bit absurd. Not referring to this quest in particular =)
An any spellbook/cp voucher sounds great, but I’m sure that’s more work (not saying what I’m proposing isn’t) and takes out some of the fun of hitting scary mobs for sbs/cps; makes them less special when you finally load it, and you don’t learn as many new areas. That and the relative value of spellbooks and cps is darn near impossible to gauge, what with the ‘solo for some’ bit and clan/posse aide and whatnot.
I am curious though: were the Blaster reward bags tailored to anything? Getting a bag with high end eq must feel great when you random for it, but if you still can’t use it, then it’s not much better than a studded leather jacket. Randomness does level the playing field in a sense, but the field still reeks if it’s filled with crap. =)
If we can help in any way, do let us know Imms.
Again, thanks Ulmo for a very creative quest and new area for us to corpse in, Truth for leading/convoing everyone at every single step we took/got dragged around in, and Azabaniluzil for mass dispelling and grenading most of us back to AH recall.
Thanks for the time/consideration =)
Player discontent with the order of distribution and/or choice of rewards we attained seems to be key issues, which can theoretically be circumvented with the system I’m proposing. You could make getting the rewards anonymous, as in you can’t see who got how many tokens/credit, or which item they got. [/quote:2pbde26e]
MEMEMEMEMEMEMEME :evil:
PS. Good work Ulmo.
In response to acedia…
The bag system was interesting. Some people who got good stuff may or may not have liked what they got, as you could imagine.
Deals and trades were worked out amongst the players, so people who really wanted something got what they wanted anyway, and those who traded got stuff they needed.
Or you picked a rockin bag, and were happy etc.
I dont think the bag system would work as the standard for quest eq, but its a nice change. I still would push for the drachma system. Everyone likes it, and im sure most everyone has something they want to eventually buy.
Maybe add a room to the drachma rooms that is just a shop full of clasps.
They are popular and almost anything you can think of people would buy.
+5hps clasp, +5ma clasps, perhaps an expensive +ma regen clasp.
Stats, effects, all would be fun.
The bag system is bad as well. I remember few people blamed Blaster for favoritism, like he told some people what bag to pick. I m not saying that it really happened, I didnt even participate in that one. Just in any case you will get blamed if you do distribution of eq.
the “any cp/spellbook” token idea is really, REALLY simple…perhaps make it personal. it can simply be a note that says “ticket good for one sb/cp: return to imm to receive item” and you simply tell imm which skill/spell you want.
“could I get a real bottle, please? i’m an alcoholic, not a barbie doll.” -maggie hoffman –> mr. woodcock
OK SO
Here is the point: (read this)
The point is to reduce the extreme pain involved with reward distribution!
The rewards don’t really need adjusting on their own.
But! It sucks to sit around for hours after the quest is done, waiting for people to figure out what they want.
With Acedia’s quest token shop idea, this is removed!
People just go to the shop with their tokens (number of tokens based on awesomeness) and buy it!
There’s no order of distribution to worry about, so you don’t have to wait for anyone.
So summary:
quest ends.
imms distribute quest tokens (more for leader/tank/people who are cool)
everyone goes to the shop
everyone types “list”
everyone grumbles about prices
people figure out what they want independently of what everyone else is doing
the tokens poof after some amount of time, so stockpiling isn’t an option.
Poggle has good nick length
wtb all ur quest tokens and eqz
my 2 cents:
if everything in world would be strictly written in rules, it woudnt be so bright and colorful lifetime - I actually like the current system when a there are more than one distribution way and imms time to time find new features. And I find it funny when I see the list of reward items and there are some totally useless eq as well :)
Of course the hour sitting after quest is boring and totally fucked when you dont have time to wait.
this idea of tokens is cool but as I said, I like when theres a little “mystery” when quest starts and unknown rewarding supports this mystery
This was an overtly generous occasion. 40 drachma + quest eq, small forges, restrings, etc.
It’s been a long time since any decent quest eq has gone out. Ulmo put forth such a nice quest concept, this was a good occasion to give out some stuff.
As for the reward system, I know Ulmo put in a lot of effort to make it as fair as he could, which seemed to work given the low level of complaining here on the crier.
It was very generous. I was suprised to see the drachma token used. Ive definately quested and seen little or nothing in the past.
Ulmo’s work on his area and the quest are not being disputed in any way. Everyone there and after has commented on the great effort made.
It was fun for sure.
The issue i stated, and am going to repeat, is the generosity keeps going to the same 3-5 types of players. Leader, tank, and buddies. And its not that they dont deserve it. They do deserve something for their efforts. However a whole group participed and the top same few got all the good generous rewards once again.
The only person Ive encountered since the end of Ulmo’s quest, who had something negative to say to me, was a chronic quest eq awardee. Who im sure doesnt want their fat reward system threatened by a caster quest participant.
Hold quests just for casters then, and level the playing field for once.
Or as i said before, make good use of the drachma awards/shops so all can benefit from participating in a quest.
Possibly even consider a cap on quest eq/regular eq awards, like a flag on your file. If you get to 3 or 5 top awards you have to hand something back in, or you go to the back of the line. But maybe thats a mess. Nothing wrong with a leader or tank getting an extra 20-50dr for their efforts. The top eq awards each time is silly.
Ive played for 14 years on sloth. Would be nice to be purely awarded some quest eq at least one time. Any immortal wants to stop by and let me pick a 14year player eq item, id be honored.
Id be curious to see people post how much quest eq they have on this crier topic. If its none, 1, or 10 please post.
It really sucks, please consider fixing it, and stop throwing up such an unecessary wall to the topic.
I wish to complain about the quest and the rewards! :twisted:
My interwebs was not working and I missed out! :evil:
But almost as if the game felt sorry for me last night… I completed 4 forges and got 400m xp in a group! Thanks to Stryx and Co and Assirian for his lovely singing. nods
40 drachma would have been nice! But quest eq… meh, if it’s not mana or shift something, it’s mostly useless for me. I’m fairly happy with just a hot run for a change.
I only dont understand why we need new tokens and new shops. We have drachma and drachma shops, right?. For this part they are exactly same, if to change something, maybe the way drachma disturbed through the game or maybe contents of the shops…
As for quest eq I have, 1 quest high and 2 quest medium (one from the last quest) I got in quests and 1 quest low I traded.
I only dont understand why we need new tokens and new shops. We have drachma and drachma shops, right?. For this part they are exactly same, if to change something, maybe the way drachma disturbed through the game or maybe contents of the shops…
[/quote:3h2ljkvx]
This is very true, and probably the best argument against the proposed quest shops. In fact, I would personally prefer it if all rewards were drachma, rather than random items.
However, people seem to like the quest items, and the imms seem to like giving them out.
I would humbly suggest to the imms:
If you give out quest items in the future, please watch the group.
Seriously, watch it.
Reward those players who take an active role in the group, by leading, running to/exploring areas, retrieving dead players/corpses, etc.
Essentially reward the players who put the most effort into making the quest work.
People may gripe about being overlooked, but at least the decision comes from an authority, rather than a peer.
This way, if the same few people keep getting rewards….well, it’s just because they deserve it.
I agree with Mosaix but not fully!
I agree in part of caster/healer - they cant get first pick compared to leader/tank - as well as 2nd tank/3rd tank etc But - leader has put a lot of effort for quest to work (or he spoiled it all) so if you got a leadership in quest and quest was good run, I surely know that leader has to have first pick. Talking about prime tank - good tank is very needed but not much more than good healers/casters. i believe tanks get their 2nd pick for dying and that is a little wrong - i would trade even 5bils of exp (you cant loose that much in one quest) for one piece of good quest item :) who wouldnt? you can get 5 bils in a small time but quest item is unreachable.
personally i’ve got one small quest eq piece and not that im good at leading to hold 30-50 ppl group busy and alive. i dont complain about leaders at all, just tanks this time - i dont see their job more complex than other mates in group.
sorry tox
im not complaining that i dont have 2-10 quest items - i have what i deserve :)
if you have free -1.4 helm, catch me online… :)
I would humbly suggest to the imms:
If you give out quest items in the future, please watch the group.
Seriously, watch it.
Reward those players who take an active role in the group, by leading, running to/exploring areas, retrieving dead players/corpses, etc.
Essentially reward the players who put the most effort into making the quest work.
People may gripe about being overlooked, but at least the decision comes from an authority, rather than a peer.
This way, if the same few people keep getting rewards….well, it’s just because they deserve it.[/quote:3naxo9g0]
Valid opinion. Perhaps I could have picked the mvps instead of the group, given that I was observing you guys closely while Ulmo was running the quest. I didn’t even stick around for the distribution, so I don’t know the details. But there’s no way you could expect some1 to run the quest and simultaneously keep track of 20 peoples activities.
I also agree generally w/ Mosaix. And btw Mosaix, the only quest gear I have is shifting sleeves that I got from trading a ruby fist charm I picked up in an xmas scatter.
Good comments/responses
I suppose another alternative would be to have Cleric prime, Mage prime, Necro prime, Druid prime quest eq, or any Prime eq really included in the sack that can only be selected by a quest participant for themselves at pick time.
That way healers who heal the tank all night, and make 50mil in raise exp might get some good eq they actually want. Or blasters casting for 4 hours etc, Druids ferreting corpses all night etc
Leaders always earn their stripes. No doubt. But so do the rest of the group to some degree. Leaders and tanks cant finish a quest without a group healing and blasting.
Thanks for the responses about it.
Heya all, I’ve been way buzy with r/l stuff for quite a wile and haven’t had any time to play lately, but I have been voting and keeping up with the crier.
As for as for me, as a Cleric Prime, from all of the quests that I have participated in, I have only ever received one piece of quest eq. To add insult to that, the only reason that I got it that time, it was a Cleric Prime only item.
Personally, I would like to have other options as far as quest eq. Drachma is good for alot of characters, but not all. Currently Madmax has 1400+ drachma and there has not been anything in the shops that has caught my attention.
How about a token that would allow the “unpersonalization” of a single drachma purchased item. That way, more “quest level” trading gear would be around.
Any ideas?
I’ll be back in the fall when things slow down around here!
Madmax
Only suggestion from your arguments I can make is to remove all the useless junk from drachma shops and add some better items. I agree that many drachma items were made without much thinking. Like thallassan royal set that costs a lot of drachma and worser than eq you can get ingame. And there are many others which cost drachma, but not worth buying at all.