New Old Classo?

I was looking at the live info and it struck me as odd as how many people were still creating old classo characters.

[quote:m8b41f49][40c 40m 40t 38w] Stump <~~PIRATE~~>

[32w 26m 22c 12t] Jammaker What shall we do with a drunken sailor, o|~

[30w 26m 18t 12c] Warael the Grey rascaL WTB BS Bracelets

[ 9w 3c 5m 1t] Exeter the Untitled

[ 3t 0m 0w 0c] Nyfe the Untitled[/quote:m8b41f49]

Only 5 people, but there were only 10 non-avatars on at the time. Seems odd that half the lower characters would still be picking old classo classos.

Maybe some of the lower chars didn’t know about the strengths of newer

class. Or ppl coming on just to chat, and then u have the ppl that just

don’t want to spend the time to start a another newbie… :)

stump is old school man

dorrin is his new character :)

Yeah, I know Stump is. Still, he’s been playing him a long time.

old class characters can be really powerful if s smart person with a lot of time and drachma is at the wheel

if not..

old class characters can be really powerful if s smart person with a lot of time and drachma is at the wheel

[/quote:3zrzomsz]

indeed 8)

old class characters can be really powerful if s smart person with a lot of time and drachma is at the wheel

if not..[/quote:1iba3uf0]

You could say that about new classo as well. Although if you’re one of the very few old schoolers with more quest eq than you know what to do with, there’s a reason to continue the tradition.

I’ll put my old school thief up against anyone, this includes new style thieves with monk. Having warrior has many advantages that you guys overlook. Let Medios stab for your group some time and see whats up.

Mike

Medios is no slouch. However, I will point out that only 1 of the 5 in the list was a thief. For warrior primes, monk and necro are very popular these days. For caster primes, its very unusual to have 2 classes with 0 mana in classo… though that’s obviously Stump, who was around when old school was the only school.

I was looking at the live info and it struck me as odd as how many people were still creating old classo characters.[/quote:1yec7y4v]

Them are just casuals. Teh only 1 reason i will create old-classo character is to make Valk-tank with -8ac w/o investing a single drachma in dream weaver’s stuff. Also, i must admit that i can make a mistake in my calculations…

I have 3 chars with -8. None are all old classo :)

I created Rub just 2 years ago and he rocks!

Warrior prime with thief in it is kinda sweet. Then it’s only natural to add mage and cleric. It’s slow to get rolling, but once you hit avatar you start to appreciate the value of having parry, a good AC, and the best melee weapon in game in addition to a nice stab. It takes a warrior stabber a full three rounds of combat to get rescued after a stab, but who needs rescues when you run with parry and -10 ac. Let the stabber split hits with the tank. It’s a makes a nicely balaced group/solo character.

Plus I don’t have to do a bunch of weird stuff like drag around corpses, shift into a giant monster, play musical instruments, etc…

I just stab the mob and then blast until dead, healing as necesary– an old recipe, but a goody.

It takes a warrior stabber a full three rounds of combat to get rescued after a stab, but who needs rescues when you run with parry and -10 ac. Let the stabber split hits with the tank. It’s a makes a nicely balaced group/solo character.[/quote:1i1a2uah]

for days like that with 1077hp and -10 I really dont mind splittin da fight. I only sacrifce 2dam and 8stabdam to nail that ac, but sometimes its best to shred the passers by more effeciently. 8)

I’ve first seen Jammaker like 8-9 years ago. wink

Rodek is old school class order (Wa Cl Th Ma), and given the choice to rework him with new classes I am not sure I would. The stab is very nice, the -11 ac and 1100hp work well combined with blasting, attuned to healing and sensate cloak make his restores in the 330hp range and hes only level 23 avatar with no other healing items. He also has a mana mode of 522mana and 18 nat wisdom from cleric helps his mana regen. For large group tanking (which I havent been doing recently because I have been too busy running eq for my other chars) he stocks fluidity coconuts which helps. They are easy to come by.

The only thing that might be nice, and anyone without necro will tell you the same, is wraithform. The advantages of this spell for a tank seem hard to overcome, I guess I could say I use that mana to float heal myself instead but I know the same as Bit does that this spell has a huge impact, at least perception wise, with who makes the best tank. I do know soloing with my necro prime though that generally the mana cost and duration make it less efficient than running without it is.

I have a pretty high level all new class order char too, and at least solo wise for his level he is the weakest char I own for chars of comparable levels (including 2 other all old school chars that are lower level).

Moral of the story – mix and match to get what you are looking for!

Mix and match is good advice.

Wraithform is odd. Just an opinion, but I think the best way to fix it would be to open up the spell so that it can be cast on other players. This should encourage cooperation and grouping, much like sanctuary does. A lower-level char with necro could become the d-wraithformer, much like we had dsancers. (The avatar duration bonus to aegis kinda killed dsancing, but there are other ways to fix that.)

I built Mosaix a long time ago i think about 2001 before the new classos went in. He rolled good stats so I kept playing him to begin my sloth 3 fun.

When the new classos went in and I became old classo, and up till now even, ive given thought to what id done to make my char different. Or even building a new char.

Cleric 1st mage 2nd, and warrior 4th Id still have kept. I want the healbonus, spelldam in the 2nd slot of 70, and warrior quad so I can wear good armor eq while I solo with Cleric suppli. The only new classo ive thought about adding might be necro to 3rd. Lots of good spells there, undeads etc. But thief skills such as stabbing, shaddowalk especially, kept me from ever making a new char to really level another char up with.

Cleric mage thief war has been and still is a lot of fun, escpecially at avatar. Its hard at first with the cleric prime, and was very hard before supplication came in but it works for me and is fun to play.

Mosaix

I don’t know about wraithform. Even in desert there’s really only 5 mobs or so that’s it’s really effective on (stalker, lion, roc, sultan, pyrohydra). And there’s always charms for that.

I think monk’s damage reduction is a more significant benefit.

Wraithform when effective will just remove attacks. Even if it fires once per round (and on many mobs it wont, but on others it will do several times a round) for the attacks doing 100s per hit this really helps. Damage reduction for a monk might cap at something like 12hp at 5x40 with eq for a tank char, and this definately helps, but against big mobs does not overcome the effect of a single avoided attack (this is why parry is still the key tanking skill)

Greater fluidity doing combined with monk resistance probably ends up equalling 1 wraithform miss on the bigger mobs, I would guess. I think some tweaks to old school classes like thief witha tumbling skill to have a chance to avoid some attacks would work well, but the idea didnt seem to warmly received when i suggested a few months back.

I don’t know about wraithform. Even in desert there’s really only 5 mobs or so that’s it’s really effective on (stalker, lion, roc, sultan, pyrohydra). And there’s always charms for that.

I think monk’s damage reduction is a more significant benefit.[/quote:2knehe0w]

When you solo, having wraithform up always makes sense.

gee a lot of these comments sound vaguely familiar. i agree that while wraithform and dmg redux are nice, they are not exactly NECESSARY to be able to tank. if you have a well organized group and healo, any average sized group can take on almost any challenge ingame (aside from those pesky epic mobs). one of the most frustrating and insulting things i have seen while grouping is that the leader will push an oldskewl tank down or out of tanko just because newclass tanks have the new buffs and skills. that tells the oldskewler that the leader has no faith in them and that they are useless in the group except to provide meat/size for the group. it is really annoying to be 5x40 tank and get pushed aside for a 3x40 char with much lower hps, no triple or av attack, parry, riposte, defy pain, etc. i can understand if leader wants to give newtank xps. that at least i can respect and will willingly step aside.

“they don’t have a name for what he is” – clarice starling –> silence of the lambs

“they don’t have a name for what he is” – clarice starling –> silence of the lambs[/quote:v76b63uz]

I guess the leaders just try to make group work in a more efficient way.

There are certainly mobs that care not about wraithform. As far as I can tell it is based on the mob level. Stab type mobs like desert, dot, mostly have low level, low hp, high dmg. Form works perfectly here, the lower lvl mobs pass through almost every time brushing off that 400hp per round. The mobs that Rub commented on will pass through almost every round. The other desert mobs will still pass from time to time making it definately worthwhile. Just to prove my point sometime I will run you guys through the desert with a wform tank, and one time without. You will quickly notice that the healo mana is drained fast by stalker, cobra, roc and will deplete before you work your way to stone giants and priests. I don’t want to give away all the trade secrets, you guys can just watch sometime when I am leading and should be able to get the point. When the tank has necro its not only wraithform that matters. Spectral shield is a large factor in tanking some areas. When you can form and spectral, then regain your form mana in the next fight and heal with surplus it overshadows the non necro tanks. I am sorry that you old schoolers feel “underpowered” but as I stated before I got an old schooler and I laugh at the new class chars that think they can keep up with what I am doing. If its that bad, make one of those “overpowered” n00bies and see how much you like it then.

Mike

PS. Anyone ever consider that old school warriors can backstab and blast. I would much rather do these things than just get hit and die.

Imho: people might have faith in old-schoolers, but there is no point in spending more mana on healing them->slowing down the group if you can just make the new-class warrior tank. 5x40 old-school “meat” tanks are much more useful in lower in the group order, when they can use not only their av attacks, but their mregen/spelldam mode as well.

Nice going, was that a deliberately calculated flame intended to wind people up or just an ignorant opinion from someone too conceited to understand that other people can sometimes have valid opinions?

one of the most frustrating and insulting things i have seen while grouping is that the leader will push an oldskewl tank down or out of tanko just because newclass tanks have the new buffs and skills. that tells the oldskewler that the leader has no faith in them and that they are useless in the group except to provide meat/size for the group[/quote:19ioevsu]

Personally I’ve never seen anyone tell any 5x40 experienced tank (oldskool or not) they weren’t good enough to tank any group, perhaps I’m just not looking hard enough.

Personally I find aegis fludity and wraithform when mixed with -10 or -11 work well for soloing individual mobs, and allow me to tackle much bigger mobs that I’d otherwise be able to, as such it has a good use, just as many other new and old class skills and spells do. The right spell/skill for the right occasion. The player and their skill and knowledge is far more important than the class their playing.

[quote:2pung2cy]Nice going, was that a deliberately calculated flame intended to wind people up or just an ignorant opinion from someone too conceited to understand that other people can sometimes have valid opinions?[/quote:2pung2cy]

Sorry, I don’t like you.

[quote:22piotvw]When you solo, having wraithform up always makes sense.[/quote:22piotvw]

No, it doesn’t actually. Wraithform is pretty limited and limiting as far as duration and mana cost go. I have told plenty of 5x40 old school tanks that they don’t cut the mustard and it is the truth comparatively speaking.

Like I said on the first page, a SMART person with a lot of DRACHMA EQ CAN be a powerful old-class character. The same person with the same amount of drachma eq invested in newclass or hybrid character is far more powerful. No question. It’s proven, done already.

Dogs is Mike’s way of showing traditionalist pussies that cleric isn’t needed.

Blackula is (will be) a step even further that will prove that you not only don’t need old classes, but that you don’t even need warrior to be a superior tank.

Well, probably I meant the certain type of mobs, which hit hard enough to make it important to lose maybe 30 hp less each round on average, thats a very common thing…

[quote:2cwlf7oj]Dogs is Mike’s way of showing traditionalist pussies that cleric isn’t needed.[/quote:2cwlf7oj]

Zukt and Truth did it before wink

[quote:7aykphjv]Dogs is Mike’s way of showing traditionalist pussies that cleric isn’t needed.[/quote:7aykphjv]

Zukt and Truth did it before wink[/quote:7aykphjv]

last player Teron. That’s a challenge! :)

Oldskool, newskool, combination of the two. Play what suits you best, have fun with it, ignore others that tell you your char isnt as good as another, and prove the shit with a punch in the mouth :D :twisted:

Thraxas - “Personally I’ve never seen anyone tell any 5x40 experienced tank (oldskool or not) they weren’t good enough to tank any group, perhaps I’m just not looking hard enough.”

It’s not about being “good enough”. Messi and FB both have it right. If I’m playing a 5x40 old-class tank and a new-class tank at 1 Av joins, the group will usually run smoother if he tanks and I switch to regen. Most of the skills I bring to the table I still contribute without being tank, and some of those are even better if I’m -not- the tank.

I’m referring to bigger heals, bigger blasts, more regen (using regen eq), more damage (turn off parry for even more hack damage, longer duration aegis, etc.

I don’t know if this is how the game “should” be, but I’ve found that it’s true that a new-class tank makes the group much more efficient. New class tanks have several skills that apply when tanking, while old class tanks have skills that apply in a wider variety of circumstances but not necessarily related to tanking.

here is an impossible idea to imagine…

we have such a deverse playerbase trying every combination to make the best char

[b:36r7wssd]OF ALL TIME!!!!! [/color:36r7wssd][/b:36r7wssd](((reverbering thundering echo)))

wtf can’t anyone compliment each other in trying new things? I love playing an oldskool thief, I might not be the best of all time, but you’ll never convince me otherwise. I have been in lots of groups by lots of dif leaders and amazingly enough for example: Minstrel, Van, Bit, Atwell and a few others line up the players to compliment each other’s attributes and strengths. Some of these said groups can run 10+ hours smoother then a clear running spring just because everyone is working together and having fun. We all know what our char can do best, we all know our strengths. Imagine how much more fun you would have relaxing and selling your part? Some of my fav groups are like this just because the leader doesn’t have to say anything to anyone. I take pride in that the leader trusts i will do my best to the letter without fail, i don’t want to be reminded what to do and he/she doesn’t need to. (of course they occasionally make sure i’m awake and that I have not forgotten how to stab :x )

The best group is a group that has a leader, not a babysitter. It’s only a game after all..

PS. ditto what Yinao said prove the shit with a punch in the mouth

Cheer!! Yinao made sense! :shock:

You bastard, you ripped me off, I want a cheers pic like I gave Auto :x .

[quote:2hch4ldp]and prove the shit with a punch in the mouth [/quote:2hch4ldp]

that’s the best shit in this thread so far

You bastard, you ripped me off, I want a cheers pic like I gave Auto :x .[/quote:xz3tcghg]

[img:xz3tcghg]http://www.crazyabouttv.com/Images/cheers.jpg[/img:xz3tcghg]

Reb wrote: " i agree that while wraithform and dmg redux are nice, they are not exactly NECESSARY to be able to tank. if you have a well organized group and healo, any average sized group can take on almost any challenge ingame"

If you know how to kill mob you dont need tank,healo,“size” or group:D

Nah probably will live size

If you know how to kill mob you dont need tank,healo,“size” or group:D Nah probably will live size[/quote:2ol5sh6a]

snicker.

things of legend….

back when players had skills.. not complaints

[img:je1dtv7v]http://www.photorepetto.com/Beer/01-CHEERS.jpg[/img:je1dtv7v]

Congrats Marc, that was good, even a ten 8).

Well, this was unexpected. I’ll try to comment on tanks in a sensible way…

The leader’s job is to keep things going. If I have Auto join, I’m stupid not to make him the stabber. He stabs harder than anyone except maybe Medios and he’s reliable beyond reason. If I have a stabber that doesn’t have an autostab, I just might make a smaller char the stabber because it beats the hell out of the tank getting clobbered because you have a slow thief. I’m not getting any advantage from a harder stab if it doesn’t land when I need it to.

Tanks are no different. If I got someone without a whiner, they’re replaced. Someone with better AC? They’re tank. Someone who drains the healo half as fast? Go for it. There is nothing at all personal about it. I am better off putting an old school avatar in a position where they can maximize their damage and disengage if needed. Kong plays 2.tank and does stupid amounts of damage while he’s at it. Plus he can disengage and use those cheap aegis of his that last forever to keep himself and the tank lit.

If the group rolls faster and regens less, it will outpace any xp you could get from point bonus. Keeping the group alive, even more so.

Amen 12345. Maybe I should come down and play again :P

I never cared about what old or new classes when choosing tanks, stabbers, etc. It was all about the player in the character… bad players make bad classos regardless of the classo. Good players take whatever classo you give them and play it to the hilt.

I’ve played a little new class and a little old class, and anyone who has grouped with me prolly knows it doesn’t matter what classo I play, it’s me that matters.

I have classos that I played better because they fit my style, I have classos I sucked at cause they weren’t.

Saying this as a player, not as an immortal… make the most of what you pick, and quit whining about what you want and don’t have.

Xandora, Ode, Lestat, Myst, etc, etc

Want to make all the old school tanks happy and me too. make wraith able to cast on others. make my necro more useful and let me cast my wraith on an old school or new school tank. My necro regens more standing that my tank sleeping in a regen room. And I’m not whining I just know my forte and its not tanking desert.

Alias

You can make wraithform charms for your oldskewl tank, and gfluid ones too. If you had a billion charms, even Teron could be a viable tank classo.

Want to make all the old school tanks happy and me too. make wraith able to cast on others. Alias[/quote:1cmrqlta]

hmm… methinx a High Av Nec like 25-ish would be cool abouts to cast wraith on someone else. That way its not that common but yet attainable

I usually do have lots of charms. Charms are nice but not very efficient in the desert, I usually use mine for specific eq mobs.

Alias

Better yet. Make wraithform Necro Prime ability :!:

i’ll settle for pwiping rub :twisted: