Since mob saving throws have improved (debuffs been nerfed), do you still think blind is worth casting in xp groups? prolly pointless for anyone but necro attuned necro imo.
one more
Since Brothers in Valor has been nerfed, monk is now a much better class to go along with Th than Bard?
[img:2dkauhux]http://www.theplaymakers.com/welcome/archives/n2.jpg[/img:2dkauhux]
can’t hurt babies or old people? ..wanna put money on that? :twisted:
Blind still lands pretty well for non-necros, and the masterful rate on blind is decently high even if you can’t get past the saves.
I haven’t seen changes to the effectiveness of other debuffs, so I assume mob saves have not changed at a global level. You may observe a different change – masterful blinds vanished a few months ago.
masterful blinds vanished a few months ago.[/quote:1rpaa6wv]
Really? I thought we only lost masterful acid blinds?
My opinion on nerfing is that it sucks… It takes zero creativity to nerf something… why not spend the effort on actually ADDING to the game or FIXING bugs, instead of just trying to be annoying and make things harder.
Honestly, what kind of legacy are you building for yourself when you do that? Nerfing things under a guise of “realism” is just downright dangerous and would start a landslide of “fixes” that would really annoy everyone. I mean we have ferret’s running around VK with katana’s! Where would the madness stop if we went down that track!
Oh my goodness… I’m starting to sound like an old classo player! :(
Nothing worse than working towards something, only to have it taken out from underneath you.
I hope I offended someone! :D
Be remembered as a builder not a breaker!
</needless rant> :oops:
my opinion is that monk has always been better than bard to go with thief, but you know that probably. dunno about the saves, havent had to deal with it.
I know this is going to sound a little like a whinge but really its not its a question …
I’m a necro prime ne cl dr ba, as such the recent (well not recent anymore but anyway) changes to warrior ac have hurt my solo ability in that I can not make better than -10ac now. Previously I could make -11ac ironed.
As a necro prime with no mage blasts my char was pretty much all about solo, and these changes really badly hurt my solo ability.
I say this not so much to whinge because although I feel very hard done by (can you tell?) I’ll accept the changes as part of the give and take of a fluid and actively administered mud.
What I would like to know though is if there are any changes in the pipeline that will swing the balance back in my direction and make my char more playable?
Perhaps giving bards the heavy armor proficiency? or a cut down version of it … chars can achieve -11 as long as a song is in effect?
I know this change wasn’t aimed at necros specifically, but it has affected quite a few of us. Necros seem to have been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed, maybe once upon a time they were too powerful, this is no longer the case, or certainly not for necro primes who rely on their pets as a primary weapon.
I can see arguements for making necro pets cascade in a similar to way supplications so they’re not so powerful in quad (a wa prime with ne at quad walking round with wform and swordwraiths soloing the desert?) to my mind its obscene that ne primes get no more powerful animates than a ne quad. However as ne has been nerfed so so much it’d be even more obscene to nerf it yet again, perhaps the pets should be rebalanced according to classo position, prime pets more powerful quad pets less so.
I hear lots of chatter that this sort of thing is’being looked at’ or ‘under consideration’ … is it really or is it all just talk and wishful thinking?
Perhaps it’d also be possible to adjust such things as spec shield and wform so they last longer with a prime cast … wform lasts as long as aegis if cast by prime, half the time it does now if cast by a quad?
Come on throw me a bone … give me something to look forward to … something new to make playing my necro prime fun again rather than just the huge disappointment that comes with knowing that even should I reach 5x40 I still won’t be able to solo the same mobs I could at Av1.
While I don’t agree with everything Thraxas has put forward, the idea that a quad Ne can have the same pets as a Prime makes me scratch my head. It falls in line that a prime should have the advantage of diving deeper into their specialty than a tert or quad. However the current animate/summon undead spells do not reflect this like the supplication spell, damage reduction, order lag, et al have come to reflect.
I’m not arguing for stronger necro’s, (I could, but who would listen?) but this seems like something someone should look at.
Oh yeah, pls bring back drachm for Epics! The honor system is a nice addition to the game, however adding that extra kick of 1 drachma for your effort of grouping the entire mud in an all out battle for glory sure makes it worth while.
$.02
Similar thing happens with one of my monks. Pick nice monk classo, get him to 3x40. Come back to the game… and his Gauntlets of Thunder had been nerfed! That was my first ever forge! And now it’s worse for my character than the gloves of the yellow rose I had to buy to make it! That really sucks, when you make investments of time into characters, only to get ripped off…
My super saiyan cat is standing by in case you do this again! :evil: Be afraid! Be Very Afraid!!!
[img:33xm2u4y]http://www.thefunnyjunks.com/wp-content/uploads/Image/2007/March/Weird-stuff/the-scary-cat/scary-cat.jpg[/img:33xm2u4y]
You guys would nerf Goku into donald duck given half a chance! People have powerful characters because they work hard at it… Leave the nerfs alone…
And, and… and leave Britney Alone too!
pfft super saiyan cat - all ya need is a bucket, a tube of vaseline, a hose, a good supply of lime jello, a roll of duct tape, some polka music and a strong stomach, and that ‘super saiyan cat’ will be running for the hills.
Autolycos told me all about it.
:twisted:
I’d just like to point out here that changing more skills/spells to work like Supplication takes us further down the road to effectively becoming a single-class mud. If you could only access the best abilities of your prime class, the importance of a good classo could be pretty much replaced by simple “do I want to be a cleric or a mage” thought.
As for nerfs, it sucks when you get hit with one, but if the balance of power between the classes could only shift upwards(no one complains about buffs) the only way to achieve balance would be a gradual strengthening of everything(PC and NPC) ingame.
masterful blinds vanished a few months ago.[/quote:1by3uhdy]
Really? I thought we only lost masterful acid blinds?[/quote:1by3uhdy]
Masterful blindnesses disappeared more recently, say in the last three months. I haven’t performed any rigorous testing, but I never see them anymore, despite their historical abundance.
While I don’t agree with everything Thraxas has put forward, the idea that a quad Ne can have the same pets as a Prime makes me scratch my head. It falls in line that a prime should have the advantage of diving deeper into their specialty than a tert or quad. However the current animate/summon undead spells do not reflect this like the supplication spell, damage reduction, order lag, et al have come to reflect.
I’m not arguing for stronger necro’s, (I could, but who would listen?) but this seems like something someone should look at.[/quote:115dgmgz]
who says quad ne get the same pets as prime?
looks to me like prime gets 3 summons that quad doesnt and 4 animates.
then again, I’ve only got 1 char with ne in it so what do I know, I’m just a silly old warrrior.
Masterful blindnesses disappeared more recently, say in the last three months. I haven’t performed any rigorous testing, but I never see them anymore, despite their historical abundance.[/quote:2uios1fg]
…
Bleah.
I think the real problem is unbalanced CLASSO not CLASSES.
For example…
Person X - Classo Order - A, B, C, D
Person Y - Classo Order - D, C, B, A (Reversed Order)
Class A rocks prime, sucks at lower position
Class B if not prime is not much different at 2nd 3rd 4th
Class C yada yada
Class D yada yada
So if an Imm, tries to depower Person X because he realises they are overpowered, if the imm does this in a wrong way… person Y gets a real short end of the stick, because it’s there last class and it sucked anyway and it feels like a double nerf!
That is to say… some primes in certain classo’s are more powerful than others… when ever you try to balance one class, you end up unbalancing someone else class order, who has that class. I have thief third on Jezer… believe me… it sucks!
So we go tic for tac, debuffs and buffs to classo’s and skills, annoying everyone in the process.
Time to sit back and do some planning! As one of my old teachers used to say… [b:1pkuwq0u]1 hours hacking can save 5 minutes planning![/b:1pkuwq0u] :)
You need to balance the abilities of each class first… but then you have to make sure that they balance in comparison with each other in positions 2, 3 and 4 AS WELL!
Of cause it’s going to seem like a Cleric, Bard, Necro, Druid is underpowered… but just because someone switched class order and went Necro Druid Cleric Bard and it kicks butt… should NOT CALL FOR NERFS! At this point they should be almost as good as each other.
Class order is too important, it makes some classo’s rule and others suck. You can’t keep addressing the symptoms… address the root of the problem.
Then again…each class could get a prime skill at Level 1 Avatar that was equal in value to all over classes.
Warrior’s Skull-Bash does 200-250 pts damage
Cleric’s Preserve Life heals 200-250 pts damage
etc etc
Flame on..it would quite down the weiners
Whiners rather :twisted:
This is in response thraxas and what he said.
First As far as prime necros go did you forget your juju? Its the best and one thing no non-prime necro can have.
Second My necro is n/d/c/b and cant get over -10 but I solo things that no thief, monk, or even some warriors could at the same levels and I play from a cell phone.
Third want longer spells like wraith and flu
Get attuned to enhancement.
To sum it all up maybe its not any nerf that makes your necro hard to play maybe
Just maybe its yours skillz.
(Necro in any game I’ve ever play has always been an advanced type of char to play)
Atwell I am still very suspicious that blind success seems now to depend on some unknown independent variable (species or mob level?). Join in on a bh xp group going thru the Matterhorn and see if you don’t notice it as well. I’m willing as ever to concede confirmation bias.
This is a response to Slobe who was responding to Thraxas who was responding to the thread. I don’t know much about ju-ju’s I admit, but I see very little ingame. Perhaps because they die too easy and they are a pain to mass-produce. Your right, the newer classes are more specialized and possibly best for someone who has been here awhile to pick up the basics. Myself, thieves kick ass.Nothing beats a successful triple-backstab circle thrust circle thrust thurst thrust circle and release.Shrug.
ps- How do you handle scrolling on a phone? Do you gag everything?
I have no problem w/ necro quad getting swordwraiths like someday I will when I finally level my prime class to 5x40. In doing so I want valk, pitfiend, ect,and Juju isnt all that good. juju is basically a demilich that u need 16 corpses for instead of one. Yes he stays alive and doesn’t crumble after 10 ticks that is about his only bonus.
and yes everyone w/ necro in classo gets the same animates and followers- except for juju and undead control caps.
there is quite a gap between wraiths at level 36 and swordwraiths at 5x40 for summons… maybe we could close the gap w/ something in between to summon, animates are cool and prob don’t need any help.
the phantoms and banshees are worthless now.
Alias/Pooka
To sum it all up maybe its not any nerf that makes your necro hard to play maybe
Just maybe its yours skillz.
(Necro in any game I’ve ever play has always been an advanced type of char to play)[/quote:3u1gwkij]
thanks for that, maybe it is my skills or maybe its just that i don’t rely on botting in groups, or maybe i do actually have a valid point and a question which if you actually read my post properly you’d have picked up on ’nerfing has swung against me this time, can we expect any swings in the forseeable future that may aid me?’
I guess that as you don’t seem to have understood that, it may be you’re reading skillz need some work too … either that or the cell you work and are oh so overly proud of playing on on is detrimental to your comprehension.
yours petulently,
Thraxas
+2 Thraxas
+0 Slobe
I would also like to agree with Alias that Necros need something more from
3x40 Wraiths to 5x40 Swords. Maybe once ur 4x40 or that give the limit
for Wraiths to 4 instead of 3, they alot better then phantoms or banshees.
Is a pit fiend really that much more powerful than a Ju-Ju?
Necros get juju + 2 swords, max undead control, and only 1 round of order undead assist lag.
The thing that I think is funny is how banshee and phantoms aren’t at least equal in strength to the wraiths. You run around till av 25 until you can make demi-liches. I’m not saying make them more powerful than wraiths, but wouldn’t you think they’d at least be halfway decent? You can make 3 wraiths and only 2 banshees or phantoms, and they aren’t even equal in hit points.
I think the only reason why I play addict instead of making a cleric or mage is because less order lag and with juju I don’t have to kill only evil mobs at av40, or mess with keeping align the same.
Addict has monk, which will give me some dam reduction and I can grip and the other monk skills, I had planned to run -10 ac. I really feel for the bards, but bards do have gods of war. And an extra 7 damage to each attack of 3 wraiths… is it better than -11? Tough call, and I feel sorry for them because it wasn’t that way when they designed their character. I completely understand why you all would feel jipped.
Oh yeah, death pact sucks.
-Toxis/Brad
correct me if I’m wrong but phantoms and banshees used to be eth, since they are not anymore they don’t live very long.
yes necros have been nerfed all to hell, but they needed to be. they were ridiculously powerful at the start and they still are one of the most powerful classes. i doubt much more will be changed about them anytime soon whether by addition or subtraction.
pets: yes banshess and phantoms suck now, they used to be great but they got changed a long time back and i don’t think they realized hwo baddly they got hosed, and now nobody who cares is around to fix them.
calling a juju a glorified demi is insane, juju’s rock and they rock damn hard, i’ll put mine up against any other summon/animate you got (cept that damn archangel and his evil proc!). as far as no difference from prime to quad, it’s just like most any other class from prime to quad, same skills just not as good. just like a mage prime needs to gather up his spelldmg eq to have a better bolt, necros need to gather up that uc eq to have better pets. what’s so hard to understand about this? more uc means more hps and a better chance of hitting. that’s quite an advantage. all of my xp runs w/ pets end when swords die, if mine have more hps the run lasts longer. necro quad’s pets won’t last long, hence a short crappy run. as far as the ac changes go, it hurt, but not all that much. think of all the other things you can add w/ that 1.0ac to spare! that and you already have your pets taking half the hits from the mob anyway, talk about a huge advantage!
granted it’s been a long time since i had to lvl a necro prime up and things have changed since then. but they still remain an awesome class to play and can do things not many other classes can. be thankful you are a necro, there’s a lotta classes that have it way worse than us.
Does Heck means Cleric and Monks?!?!
Mandos your juju is a bokor, there is a hell of a big difference between that and a viscous. this is full uc notice the small difference between juju and demi and the demis hit harder, both cast, weaken ect.
A demilich reports 827/827 hp, 125/125 mv, and 450/450 mana.
A demilich reports 934/934 hp, 125/125 mv, and 450/450 mana.
A vicious Ju-Ju Zombie reports 990/990 hp, 1000/1000 mv, and 500/500 mana.
and yes I’m not complaining about the power of necros just stating the facts.
While I can’t solo the elite mobs that 5x40 druids can, I don’t do bad.
I can certainly solo more in my necro than my tank, hence why I’m more comfortable in pooka than alias.
While the ac nerf hurt a lot of people I cant say it hurt me, so don’t think this is about personal gain- I still run -11 and don’t know if I would be able to go -12 for quite a while, but I noticed a lot necros were hurt so much they basically gave up the char and started another.
I thought max ac for non-Warrior prime = -11? Was this changed?
Ok first I’m not overly proud of my cell, in fact it makes me sad to have to play on it. Second you said something about botting, laff you cant bot from a cellphone just lagg :p. Third YOU didnt read my post correct, I was agreeing ac nerf did hurt (even if I didnt say it) but necros even with -10 and no blast are very playable imo.
Ok that said before I had sword/dracos/demis I ran with 2 wraiths and 1 banshee and it seemed banshee was still ether and made a decent tank for my wraiths if summoned right. Only problem I found was when I would lost connect and flee from the fight I couldnt get back in room because banshee was proc’in. We are necros dont think like a tank send pets in first get the debuffs and all will be right with the world.
Sorry if I offended you with the skillz thing I have no tact muahahaha.
When life throws you a bone make soup :)
I don’t understand how elite druids can supposedly solo bigger elite mobs? Check out the stats on these pets!
A demilich reports 827/827 hp, 125/125 mv, and 450/450 mana.
A demilich reports 934/934 hp, 125/125 mv, and 450/450 mana.
A vicious Ju-Ju Zombie reports 990/990 hp, 1000/1000 mv, and 500/500 mana.
Thats 2751 hp and 1900 mana before you’ve even contributed from your own supply. :shock: I’ve used a few druid pets, they last about a round on lyme, and there’s nothing you can do about it… how druids can do better than necro’s must be coming down to player skill. Those are insane totals!
Also to pick up on a point someone made about strides. You have to compare apples with apples. I don’t have a 5x40 char… so when talking about the weakenesses of classes… is it just that we aren’t as good as another player… or we have less levels?
I started writing about druid from the time when I first started to play one, some of what I wrote I wouldn’t agree with now, because it’s success was pretty much just dependant on having more levels. It would seem some classo’s do peak at certain times, but you have to take this into account.
At < lvl 38 druid I was about to give up…. Could it be that nerfed necro’s are still fairly ok at 5x40? Can you hold on till then?
Last night Assirian said that he plays cleric because he knows he won’t get nerfed… :twisted:
True comment though, play old classo if you want to escape the nerfs. With that said… I still want to see imm’s chained to chairs for the amount of time it takes us to get our chars to it’s current level before it got nerfed.
I built my druid classo based on it’s power to solo a few eq mobs… if they were to nerf it… That would be about 672hrs of my life down the drain… working to a dead end goal. You have EVERY RIGHT to be cut! It’s just wrong to short change people, when they make investments like that. We decide our classo on power, and then to have the carpet pulled out from underneath us is immoral! Yeah, less necro’s these days in groups I’ve noticed… they were useless without pets anyways… hehe :twisted:
Like I stated, I had Gauntlets of Thunder at -0.2 ac + 5 hand dam. Now they got cut to +2 hand dam I think, no one runs castle because of epics… and one of the cp’s is now better than the original item… I mean stab me in the heart a little harder why don’t ya! It’s just wrong, you don’t nerf by doing these things to players.
Sorry if I offended you with the skillz thing I have no tact muahahaha.
When life throws you a bone make soup :)[/quote:chwazro1]
she made soup out of you
Just a couple thoughts….
Yeah, summons between wraiths and swords suck. A lot. My summoned wraith can take a phantom and hardly break a sweat.
This has been referenced by a few people, but I think it’s REALLY important and should be emphasized: UNDEAD CONTROL MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE. If you don’t believe me, put up a sword at +20 uc vs a sword at 0 uc and set them on each other.
That said, a necro prime with 20 uc (or whatever cap is) has a serious advantage over a quad necro with 8 uc. Calling them the same pets is misleading, to say the least.
Off to read the coping with life after 5x40 post… if nothing interesting strikes me there, I’ll bid you all a fond adieu for a period of time ranging from 2 months to 20 years. Great playing with you all!
Van
I’ll bid you all a fond adieu for a period of time ranging from 2 months to 20 years. Great playing with you all!
Van
Out of gas? :(
so when my wa/ne hits 40 necro he’ll be able to summon/animate whatever is listed at 2x40? cuz right now, necro kinda sucks for him.
(yeah yeah, I know nothing about necros)
Out of gas? :([/quote:1jw4qqfk]
Sugar in my gas tank, actually.
That sugar = a woman i bet!