Here is the website we relied heavily on to watch our numbers and the numbers of other muds:
http://mudstats.com/Game/SlothMUDIII.aspx
it has some nice information regarding where we were a couple of years ago( just about dead as a mud ) to where we are now, player wise.
Enjoy,
Splork
Hold on Splork, this supports the player base doing well… it does NOT support characters playing over 4x40 are doing well… and you should know by doing a quick count in your head of just how many people have quit, in particular the older clans such as DS, Greedy, DOW and Legends before or just on 4x40. Don’t make me start listing them. If these stats show anything, it’s that we are more newbie friendly, which is a good thing. The fact remains about half the players are not continuing after 2-4x40. Remove the immortal chars and long termers from the 17 active players over 4x40 and whose left?
When I look at player stats I see new players who never played s3 aren’t making it to 3x40.
Also how long are they logged in for? Your stats counts it as a +1. We have people in the top 20 3x40 list not even making 100m in a week. I’d suggest your bad interpretation of these stats just proves to highlight the difference between the perceived and the actual you have, this is the point I am trying to make. Your decisions are out of touch with how things are, based on false logic.
It supports the fact we even have a player base as compared to 08 when the game was dead.
Thes stats point out average numbers compared to similar times of years past. While the game is far from perfect we are doing much better than most MUDs and much better as a whole from two years ago.
I’d clearly suggest you stop putting words in my mouth.
Splork
Splork wrote: While the game is far from perfect
Ok, so the game needs some tweaking, what are the plans? What actions can we take to solve the problems and put things back on track?
To help players do the other side of sloth, improving there eq and questing as opposed to mindless xp, I think you should lower the cleric supps 1x40. It brings the nightmare down to the level where characters just start gaining the power to bring down bigger mobs by themselves if required, or if circumstances/timezones don’t allow for a workable group.
XP loss on death should be cut again… mainly to reflect the fact solo xp is significantly lower and harder in s4 because of the cuts to hitroll and some of our favourite nongroup xp areas.
XP bonus for levels sounded like a good idea… however I do feel this will only further highlight the differences that some areas give in xp. Ie, my argument of not being able to deathgrip a maenad for 30k, but gripping a oly poorper for 500k… That idea will make these margins look even worse. Is it not better to fix areas before this is factored in, so it will be consistent?
Be open and share the vision for the awesomeness at 9x40 and give us something to get excited about. Redo the avatar guide and show token costs and what we can buy etc?
Any concessions in these 4 areas would surely receive a positive response from players?
We love gems, and we love the 8 class system, we love the new quest shops, max stat, changes to eq have proved not too bad, changes to auctioning goods etc. But if you prune a rose to much, it won’t always bounce back, sometimes it will die. Throw the dog a bone!
Great questions actually and my answers are probably not going to please anybody…
I’ve left my job as an IT specialist to go back to my Gov’t factory position. My hours have gone from 9-5, five days a week to 12:30 PM to 1 AM, nearly 7 days a week. I am in the process of buying my first home which takes up the rest of my day along with spending a few minutes with my son and family. My time here has been stomped on which is exactly why I have delegated, mostly behind the scenes, many of the aspects of my responsibilities here to others. Isabo is the head coder and has full access to anything he needs to fix/run the game, Chobbs runs many aspects of the game and is now a coder. Neptune is the head builder. I hate the fact I have not played the game in over three months and have not been able to contribute( except for crash fixes or emergency things such as the other night) but I am taking precautions and steps to make sure the game keeps running itself. I have lost some sense of the game which is why I rely so heavily on others and have since the beginning of this version of sloth.
I have given supplication very little thought, Id like to hear more on why these changes are needed. Most of us ( immortals ) have felt that group mobs are just that, group. If a player now and again can solo group eq mobs, fine but overall, this is the design of the game and probably will not change. Im sorry if groups are not always available but soloing demo or krakken will most likely be frowned upon:) Some equipment can only be acquired through use of joining a group.
We can lower the penalties and chances of level loss again. I also like the idea that Nobody put forth in a previous post. Im really debating not allowing a player to have exp loss or level loss two deaths in a row. So if a player dies today, they are exempt from any penalties the next time.
Adjusting 250 areas is simply an impossibility. We have helped in this area by coding features which can target an area and adjust exp up or down as a whole. While this isnt fixing the underlying issue, it helps us as quickly as possible. We have not made area xp adjustments in a year+, we can check out areastats and add much more exp to the game by amping up these areas. I WILL get this done this weekend.
- I really do still like the idea of additional xp bonuses per total levels though…
- The avatar guide has been redone and is somewhere on the new website or it wasnt added in yet. Benq is on vacation another week and I will talk to him then.
As for what people can buy and for how much, that wasnt decided yet and we are open for suggestions. We want to keep avatar lights for sure and have tons of stuff to buy. Its a great way to add player power and an awesome way to remove coins.
The reason we “nerfed” everything for this version of sloth is simple and it had to be done: its easier to add back to the game then take away. Also, removing things from the game leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth while adding back to the game makes everyone feel all warm inside. The game had gotten grossly out of whack at the end of S3. It needed to be done. Because of these “nerfs”, we have been able to add features like gems, Neptune and others can get eq approved that would of NEVER of been added in s3. Regens, hitrolls, damrolls can all be increased, etc etc.
I’m heading back to work, hope this answers some things and I’m sorry I haven’t had time to finish much of the work we have had planned. Ive been helping run sloth as one of its’ main creator for nearly a decade now and its taken a back seat for the last few months.
Im always open for suggestions, I may not get back to people as quickly as I used to. This version of Sloth has been different since its inception, player ideas are added and considered way more than in the past and its a nice precedent to set and live by.
Splork
I was pleased to hear about Isabo being given the power to do more, as a natural progression of you being able to do less due to your time commitments. I don’t know Isabo well, but from what I’ve seen, I’d say it’s in good capable hands, even if inevitably we won’t agree on some points. Chobbs was also making some cool changes - ie, druid pets :) Vendor etc
I still think the area xp inconsistency is a cancer in sloth, that will need to be dealt with eventually. As much as I appreciate this is a hell of a lot of work to fix, the system could be fixed by having a more “generic centralised formula” for the entire mud instead of individual areas wavering to much on the amounts as they seem to do at the moment. If this were setup correctly and calculated on player and mob variables… the mobs xp could be calculated, and no need for builders to get mobs “approved” making less work for administration. I also think killing a mob over 20 rounds of it hitting less should be worth the same or more xp as a hard hitting 3 round wonder stab mob. ie, Time wasted is equal to damage taken. It would be a hard task to complete, now the game is already underway - but not impossible, it would just take some sample data to make sure it’s balanced at all ends.
I’m not looking to use nightmare to bring down Ravensglade. I want it to help kill Oni and Granitecrusher, typically I could kill these in 2 or 3 runs atm if I had a nightmare. The only mobs I ever recall running, that I probably should not have been able to run was Mayor in Ravensglade and the eternal flame - needless to say that took ages! Instead of making nightmare such a reach because you don’t want people to cycle group mobs… why not compromise… making it so a nightmare only works on mobs dependent on the players level. You don’t always have to go for the yes and no answer, you can go for the grey one. I don’t get eudaemon till 6x40, like in the old sloth nearly EVERY player had it by 3-4x40 max. In the new sloth 6x40 is almost equivalent to having two Avatars in s3. I still hope it’s gets adjusted. If you reply talk to Isabo… I will be!
I potentially can not solo oni till 6x40 at the moment, that doesn’t seem right!
Jezer im sorry but you sound like a communist - every area should use the same code to calculate the exp, every player should get the same exp, blah blah blah.
How about mobs that pop eq, should they still dish out great exp ?
How about a player that doesnt know how to use his abilities and doesnt have great eq, does he still deserve to get exp that’s just as good as others ? Now how about a char that has a really crappy class order, should he get the same exp as the others ?
If you want nightmare at 3x40 not 6x40, why dont you make a cleric prime instead of a cleric tert ? If you have chosen a class order that cant solo a 3mil mob at 3x40 why should anyone else care and why should you now ask immortals to try and change the game to cater to your needs while you continue saying how much you enjoy your classo?
Dragoth wrote: blah blah blah
Yes I’m a communist on xp, although the stupid ideas you put in my mouth I didn’t agree with. Some of your stupid ideas could actually be worked into the overall xp formula anyway. I don’t think your choosing to try and see how it could actually work… a little to desperate to shoot off your mouth without thinking… Any number of variables can be created to make something work… it’s the very nature of programming… the more variables the more things it can work for. Yes, I’m calling you stupid. If you work in IT, I certainly wouldn’t hire you. Centralization is a key to maintainability.
Shiftforms and Supplication positions were changed AFTER the game had restarted and I’d already invested heavily in my character, some people were already 3x40. The changes were a knee jerk reaction, and little to no thought went into the true effect of the changes. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say hey, those changes were a little harsh and impromptu how about a rethink.
Im not saying your communist ideas are impossible, i am saying - why should it be so ? Why should everything be the same, some areas give better exp than others, because they are easier to reach, they have less aggro mobs, or simply because the immortal who created the area wanted it to be that way.
As for your troubles with supplications - you started the character pretty late and i remember distinctly supplication changes being in the game even when i started playing the game and it was still early days, so you are either lying or dont remember exactly what happend.
And calling me stupid does not make you or your arguments smarter.
Dragoth wrote: As for your troubles with supplications - you started the character pretty late
Wrong, Day One. Worked it to multiple 40 before taking a break moving to countries. I was interested in Jezer’s class order after playing Apprentice in sloth 3, I liked Apprentice but I really wanted some versatility after the experience. Cleric 3rd was based on getting nightmare at about the time my druid powers start to develop. I can still get a nightmare, it’s just a loooonnnggg haul, I think a change of 1x40 would be happily accepted and more the “middle line” of game progress, I’ll put you down as a no.
As for making some areas less xp. I don’t like this idea, but once again… it’s just another variable for the formula to adjust the outcome by a percentage for the area… or a percentage for a mob. If you love this idea so much, go run perseverance… seriously!.. oh? you don’t want to? :roll: You just think the game should have useless crap areas no one runs…? oooookkk.
And calling me stupid does not make you or your arguments smarter.
That’s actually true… but you have to admit, you flamed me without thinking to much. You just objected straight away to my idea without thinking deeper about it and let me have it.
There are certain areas that noone runs and there was a topic about that already quite some time ago. And immortals had their say in it. Basically what it boiled down to was that not all areas are supposed to be there just for the exp, some provide better exp, some provide gold, others have lots of autoquest, eq etc - basically all that i have told you.
As for me shutting you out so quick - whats wrong me having some preconceptions regarding this topic when i have actually heard the exact same conversation before, yes i’ve been here a long time ! Just because i responded so quick you assumed i just wanted to contradict you, but you know what they say about assumptions.
As for supplications, i did start the game in the early months so im not sure when this change was, but when i started caring about supplications, eudaemons were already 4x40. Im pretty sure Splork can confirm if it was changed midgame or right at the start.
Anyway, Splork is just going to just tell you the same thing about the exp code as it’s already been talked over before - aint gonna happen bub.
Dragoth wrote: Anyway, Splork is just going to just tell you the same thing about the exp code as it’s already been talked over before - aint gonna happen bub.
You could be right, although Isabo may have slightly different ideas than Splork, and raise the number of levels required for nightmare. :twisted:
I know my outspokenness has lead to changes on more than one occasion, the latest being the number of attacks on naga form after proving my secondary class was as powerful as my primary class. Of course the changes are never exactly what I want, but I think the verbal jousts about the game we have on the forum actually do achieve positive changes every now and then even through compromise. I’m glad you spoke out, even though we won’t always/ever agree, but it’s probably just my communist tendency :P
There is that famous saying “All that is needed for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.” I’m not saying that evil is succeeding on sloth, but I am suggesting we speak out more with positive ideas… instead of the quiet bitterness and murmuring we do amongst ourselves feeling that the fight for change is worthless. There are many people that read these threads and say nothing, it annoys me. I bet they have a lot of valuable things to add… even if they don’t agree with me, it’s good for the game. Splork has caved in sometimes and done what players wanted if you can provide solid arguments, and the debate will be heated… it’s give and take.
The experience algorithm already includes an obnoxious amount of variables, including hitpoints, damrolls, procs, armor class, etc of a creature.
Shapeshift forms were changed in the first few months of S4. Supplication was spread out at the beginning of this version, from what I can remember and see using CVS logs.
Awaken and the necro spells were changed during first few months of s4 as well, to use the supplication method to increase importance of class position.
Just an fyi.
Splork
I absolutely agree with you on one thing Jezer, if we dont like something and we are quiet, those things in the game are never going to a change.
If you do feel that something isnt right it’s your responsibility to get this across to immortals and creators so they can at least pay attention to the problem - whether they decide against your propositions is another issue, but at least you’ve tried your best. I think it’s in both players and immortals best interests that player’s concerns are voiced. And i am positive that with Splork as a creator, certain things do get across and they actually get changed, unlike in Sloth3 where nothing coming from a players mouth ever mattered.
Mornin’ folks,
I really like newbies. They’re curious, they explore, they’re fresh new faces. But most importantly, they do not have all these preconceived notions of how sloth should be, but rather play it as the game it is.
Veterans want a old game, but completely different. “Fix all the problems. Give us more stuff”. Thanks guys, very helpful. While we do this, fix world hunger, give us world peace. How? I don’t know, just fix it. Give us stuff, since we want more. More power, more hp, more regen, more more more.
Old exp areas are just that, they’re old, they’re dated. After running prong horns for years, do you really want to keep running the same mobs again for more years?
Shake off your preconceived notions and try playing sloth4 instead of reminiscing about sloth3.
-
About a year ago, I redid a few areas and mobs, one of which was ogre caverns. Used to be pretty terrible grip/blast exp, a lot of pain for maybe 300k apiece. Who knows if it’s better now, since ‘better’ is a matter of opinion. But I did learn that revamping an area into a semi worthwhile one takes an absurd amount of time. And it’s a thankless job that more often than not brings nothing but harsh criticisms. Rebalancing one area, let alone the 100+ ones ingame that really need retouching, is rough work.
Change the exp calculator at the root? Sure! But how. Based on hp? But there are fat stab/blast mobs out there that would grow bloated. Damage? That would reduce some of the low damage mobs to nothing. Changing it would also lower exp on various mobs as well, which is pretty much what happened before. There are always ramifications to tweaking with something so ubiquitous.
-
I’ve honestly never been a fan of nightmares. Haunt+ blast blast blast regen is more tedious than large grouping. I prefer mobs with fewer hitpoints so you never need to use a nightmare, but there seems to be some curious belief that this is the only way to solo things, or that all mobs need to be soloable.
Lower nightmare to 1x40 so that anyone with 40 cleric can ‘solo’ everything. Why?
Can’t solo oni til 6x40? I really didn’t think you were that bad of a player.
-
It’s true, if we aren’t aware of a problem, we can’t fix it. But there is also something to be said for how we’re notified, and the nature of the problem. When someone whines on crier, or berates the imm staff or specific imms, I become strongly disinclined to help the fellow. This tacit ‘silence’ that you’ve observed regarding problems could also mean that a lot of folks are able to live with the status quo, or that you’re the only one that even sees it as a problem. A lot of people could be fine with the way things are.
We are here to help the playerbase, but please remember, this is a hobby, not our jobs. And despite the ‘immortal’ title, we’re still people too.
-
Sloth isn’t perfect, it’s true. But what game is? Sloth is a great game. Maybe if you stop focusing just on the negative, one day you’ll see that too.
Chobbs
So Choobs, you are saying there are a 100 areas in sloth that need a redesign ? :mrgreen:
I think I’m more like the huge majority of players who really like sloth4 and most of its changes (not part of the quite small percentage of frequent whiners) . Splork hit the nail on the head when he said it was easier to add things then take them away. This definitely makes everyone happier when it is done that way.
(Warning my whine is coming, skip this if you don’t want to hear it. )
But, since I got no response from my tells about a problem with a recent “take away” nerf, I thought I would air my opinion here.
Since I’ve been playing a necro for a good while, the recent “taking away” change surprised me and it has hurt my play a lot. In fact, since the change I have almost stopped playing. I’m still giving it an occasional run, but the drop in effectiveness is quite painful now. The nerf has cut my runs in length by about a half. My regens are required much more often, etc. All caused by a “taking away” change. I think anyone whose runs were cut this much would have a grievance.
I’m referring to the almost universal lowering of corpse levels. I don’t think this affects a lot of people, but for a necro at my level, it is quite bad. A huge number of areas used to have decent level corpses that were reasonable to kill. This allowed necros to make animated pets without much problem. Now there are only few soloable corpse mobs per continent.
Play has changed significantly. When I want to run an area, first I have to leave that area, regen, run a different area for corpses, regen, make pets, regen, just to run back to the area I wanted to hit in the first place… it really cuts into the fun. Animated pets have been seriously nerfed for necros and that is a huge part of the necro arsenal.
Thanks for looking at this.
Jag
@Anrok:
Yes, that is what I said. They don’t all need 100% overhauls, but retouching here and there.
Some of these areas are over a decade old. The game and its mechanisms did not remain static in all this time, and player power has grown tremendously over the years. So yes, a lot of these areas have become severely dated and need some updating.
@Jag
last player Jag
Jag’s last logon was Sat Aug 7 19:12:33 2010
[40c 40d 40m 28n 24w 22t 19o 16b] Jag %s
If I’m not mistaken, you can animate a gaunt/ghast at best. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe you can’t find a corpse to animate either of these. Perhaps you have another character with 40 necro. Still, there is no shortage of wightable corpses. Lichable and up might be trickier; let me know which continent/which corpses you’re referring to. Aside from two or three mobs on AH, there haven’t been any corpse level lowering (that I’m aware of anyways) in months. Vague claims such as “general corpse levels lowered” doesn’t really help. Even though there are only 9606 mobiles in the game, I’m not omniscient enough to know exactly which ones you’re referring to.
Thanks,
Chobbs
100 areas to redo is not too shabby if you consider you that have to go through every mob in the area, might be quite a bit time consuming. But im sure there are some areas that need alot while others just need minor changes. I see pretty much every area in the game utilized one way or the other, like hellwell might be crap exp and there arent too many peolpe who can run it efficiently but its awesome eq and gold. But if we are being real, what else is there in this game in terms of area popularity? It’s really all about exp and gold and eq and if an area does not comply to any of those things, then it will just sit there being unrun, especially if its a hard run with a few aggro mobs, like vampire lair with those huge aggro vampires - who ever runs there now ? And as far as i can remember those citizens arent bad exp, but you need to kill vampires, then regen full then kill, then kill vampires again etc - it slows down your exp getting considerably as you can clear 2 exp areas in the time it takes you to clear 1 run in the lair, and the exp is not really twice as good to compensate for that, some immortals just dont think of that when they make an area and then they wonder why does noone run my zone, the exp on some mobs is not so bad ?
Anyways, i dont really see this as an issue personally as i know which areas to run with all my characters and i seem to be getting ok exp, but then again all my characters have awesome class orders with decent eq and i know all the areas and i’ve test tried all the runs to get the optimal exp per hour rate. Yes, i get nowhere near the same ammount of exp that i could get i sloth3 and aged exp and exp penalties are annoying, but i just work around the system by clearing all aged mobs, then renting for a day and coming back to do the same run next day, once my penalties are up i just join an exp group and do some gold runs to remove my exp mobs from penalty list and off i go again. Of course if someone else was running the same exp mobs then my system would be ruined but thankfully we dont have alot of players who can solo my mobs to mess this up )
to Jag, the corpse issue was not really a taking away, but a bug fixing as you could animate any undead from any corpse, so that had to be fixed - it did take quite a bit of time to be fixed though and necro’s got used to easy corpses and instant undeads. It was quite fun while it lasted though, animating a wight from another dead wight was ace.
But you’ll stop worrying about corpses once you get wraiths anyway.
My necro is Yersinia.
The general corpse leveling was over a month ago. I did not immediately complain because I first tried to find substitutes, then tried working with what was there, then tried “tells” to imms.
I’m not sure which imm did the lowering (it was a gem thing to stop gem farming I believe) but if you check, I think you will find there was a large number of corpse changes.
Jag/Yersinia
P.S. Dragoth I am aware of that bug fix and am not complaining about it. There was a separate general lowering of corpses that I used to make vilewights in almost every area that has them.
@Jag
Again, unsupported claims of “general corpse level lowered” isn’t very helpful. I can say there was a “general corpse level increase”. Do you want to check 9500+ mobs to verify this? You would also have to know what they were before, else how can you tell if they’ve changed? It’s easy to just say “check it” while remaining vague.
Specific examples would be appreciated. But remember, one or two changes isn’t an “almost universal lowering of corpse levels.” What are you killing? Perhaps they should be made 41+ so that you can use those instead, since you seem to require significant preparation and large undead to bring them down.
The only changes I’m aware of were the mangonel lizards [x2] in Mage Tower Ruins and the arctic wolves [x3], both of which had huge corpses for their absurdly low ‘difficulty’. There are still plenty of fairly easy to obtain lv41+ corpses on AH.
Again, if we don’t know about these issues, we can’t resolve them. Imms aren’t omniscient, so don’t resent us for not knowing what you’re thinking.
Chobbs
I have no resentment at all and hope you realize I was slow to complain and in fact don’t like doing it. I’ll compile a list of what I can remember being changed and send it to you.
I realize the change that affected me was done to fix something else in the game. It had a bad effect on my play and that was, I’m certain, unintended.
Jag
Often in immortal replies we read something like “that’s wrong information, your just not good enough or you don’t know or don’t look.” How is this our fault when we can’t see mob levels, we don’t even know our caps, and it’s such a secret society up there when it comes to releasing information. It’s fanastic that you know because you can look at area files and game formulas, but we can’t. We don’t even know exactly what some spell effects do. Try the bite on naga, there are a number of different messages, one is a successful blind, the others I have no idea about… this is the norm, this is what we put up with, so please don’t tell us we are wrong or stupid when we get skimpy information and have to beg it out of you.
I’m sorry if Splork feels put out by the fact I had a shot at some of his changes. Exactly how do you say you feel the history of someones decisions have been poor with out hurting someones feelings? There are no “hard” feelings here, but I still wanted to express this.
These fresh newbie’s without inhibitions that you love to watch, don’t seem to be staying or playing to higher levels.
Soloing is important for some of us, you just don’t get the timezone thing do you, it’s like everyone is American. Sometimes I just want to play the game by myself… who wants to help me run quest mobs, just for myself? People do? What world is this your speaking of and how can I login? Utopia v1.3?
Some player told me - when lyme first opened again, it was about 35% lower on xp (On the typical solo runs it’s even lower). Given the added hard ships or our “inhibitions from s3” I still think your insane if you think the average player who wants to “ENJOY” and be “ENTERTAINED” by playing sloth is going to wear a smiley face while finding the right grain of sand on a beach on there way to a +1 if they are lucky.
Your reply Chobbs mostly just gave a counter perspective, it doesn’t mean that the problems aren’t still there - or can be ignored, even though you did try and “come back” on most of the points.
The fact areas are apparently so high maintenance, suggests to me they really do need to be changed. Maybe the area files could be parsed out, inserted into a database, and queried to gets highs and lows, and then area files written back. If you create the right tool, this work could be helped along - all though I seriously do understand how much time these things can take. I’m porting 18,000 lines from VB6 to .NET atm. .NET Conversion tool… yeah right.
I do understand this would make mobs go up and down significantly… but last night I logged on, group had just finished, about 10 players on. So I go to solo, someone runs shadowkeep… so I run murkwood once for some insignificant xp, I feel like logging out because the time feels wasted compared to better runs. If xp had more of an average line, I could theoretically run anywhere for my communist xp and be rewarded fairly. I went back to trying to knock together some drachma, killing two run mobs, a competition of who had the better regen rate. I don’t think I can knock together 30m solo in an hour atm. My next level is about 700m.
24hrs of xping solo so I can get the (improvement?? - which is mostly unknown… of course) of warrior level 37 - the new awesomeness after warrior 36, of course I don’t want to run prongs like in s3 and get it over with quicker, I want to do this killing maenads, then goblins, then gnolls, then kobolds because diversity is fun or something. You don’t solo much do you?
@Jezer
Quote: Often in immortal replies we read something like “that’s wrong information, your just not good enough or you don’t know or don’t look.”
- Thank goodness none of these replies fall into that category. Don’t use the fact that it’s an immortal reply as a basis for your soapbox rantings, not without actually reading the reply first.
I was actually asking Jag for more information, specifically which mobs he believed were changed, so I could go and verify that myself, instead of wading through all 9500+ mobs and kinda just guessing. Is this imm information, what Jag thinks? Since when did we get access to this sort of information? I guess I was also being too vague and opaque when I mentioned two specific mobs that were changed.
Also, I can’t nor do I feel the need to have to be able to look at game formulas to enjoy the game. Doesn’t really add much to the game for me. And not knowing means when folks ask me, I can honestly say I don’t know. Pro tip: Try getting your facts straight instead of making things up and passing them off as true. Do show me where in this thread I’ve said folks are wrong or stupid and I will apologize accordingly. Having a different opinion, or a “counter perspective” as you put it, is not calling people wrong. Please don’t turn this into a baseless “imm v players” rant.
Sure I’ve seen plenty of newbies leave after a few weeks. But I’ve also seen plenty of newbies stick around for months. Given the fact that we’ve only been up for a bit over a year, that’s a significant proportion of the time. They might not get to the higher levels, but they’re still learning and might not be able to level as fast as veterans can. Or maybe they’re enjoying the journey, instead of some blind dash towards 9x40. To you, they might not ‘seem’ to be staying long, but clearly your perception is how things must be.
I was in Asia for the last two months, prime time there was off hours in America. Logged on sloth there, still managed to get a lot accomplished, largely solo. A lot of groups running too, much to my surprise. You can still try Utopia 1.3 if you really want to (I think v1.4 might be out), but I personally recommend Sloth.
So lyme used to be 35% less exp. I guess it stayed that way. Nothing in sloth ever changes, right? Or something. Imms must not listen since Lyme is still at the ‘when it first opened’ stage.
Who’s ignoring the problems? Like you’ve said, you yourself have helped spur several changes in problematic areas. Other imms have done their share with their respective areas. I myself have spent hours trying to improve various areas, completely overhauling a few while tweaking mobs here and there, all in an attempt to try to help resolve these problems where I can. Still spend way too long trying to tweak things here and there to fix these problems. I’ve tried asking for more information from players about perceived problems so that I can take a look at them, (try actually reading my last two replies), but I guess since I’m an imm I must be ignoring everyone or something like that.
Solo much? Of course. More solo exp than group, by maybe a billion or so exp over pc lifetime. Spend probably 70% of the time solo, rest grouping. Why is this relevant again? Oh, perhaps you’re saying I should get more of the group perspective. Okay, I can do that.
@Jag
Thanks. Once you’ve compiled that list, just send it to chobbs@slothmud.org and I’ll get back to you on that matter.
Chobbs
Actually you clearly were being rude and obnoxious in your post. Also, half of the changes you mentioned were not my decisions but that of the entire Immortal staff. I simply sign my name to them in a post, as thats my responsibility.
Secondly,mentioning that you are simply stating a history of my bad decision making is amusing, as not only do you not know what is or isn’t my decision but its clearly YOUR opinion and not that of most players these days. As its been repeated time and time again by these players, they mostly remain silent and enjoy the game, as it is a game.
Either way, whatever,
Splork
Well…i’m not Jezer and i tend to dislike his obnoxious way too. But here’s my summarised 2 cents worth.
I play sloth as a game. Since S3, it’s been a game and will always be. In other words, when this game is down (due to whatever technical problems), the tendency to feel bored is there and somehow, i dun turn back to facebook games (despite it having pictorials). I ended up patiently trying to log back on and seeing if its up.
This game’s fundamental is still very D&D, improve, improve, improve. Adding to the fact that there’s so much variety of players with different character (not pchars but character). Some throw their anger into war on gossip, some decide not to group and sending tons of tells, some nice pple (like my clannies) who share and care, some nice players who are very capable.
As much as i avoid giving imms opinions, i’m more interested in fixing bugs. Reason is…bug was not meant to be…such as runes not giving proper stats. As to fixing the game…it’s just a game. A game which i enjoy and hopelessly addicted due to the fundamental reason of improvement.
I’m a dad now. I’ve grown like Rick. We have different priorities now and thus, i appreciate the imms as they are doing it out of hobby. Without which i will not have a game to play, to chat, to improve.
All in all, it’s still a game which i enjoyed for years and i see myself continuing to enjoy for years.
@Jezer: Prehaps, just prehaps, you should try to play a necro. I see Wimpy and Acme doing some mobs that i as a warrior couldn’t really kill. One thing is, you know that there’s always a price to pay/some sacrifices in any classo. I’m loving it playing a warrior now, as much as some pple’s comments that warriors are dead boring. Pls dun even bother responding to my simple way of phrasing and perception. Its just a request as you have yr freedom.
To all: I appreciate a lot of things. I appreciate Sloth uptime, zuzu helping newbies, Chobbs fixing things, Ryn/Van/Zuzu Leading,. I appreciate my clannies, I appreciate gems (changes which i think is good and exciting), i appreciate honor points (Akasha’s implementation), i appreciate twigs to ogre, I appreciate new AQs, tons more….so…i appreciate Sloth.
As such, i like to say: THANK YOU ALL IMMS! for keeping Sloth Alive.
P.S. I only dun appreciate one thing…that’s Tuk.
DSFREN
Afternote: After re-reading my thread, I wondered why i even bothered to type this when i rented and was suppose to go to sleep. Now it’s 1.34…way pass my bedtime and i know i’ll be suffering tomolo at work. Nevertheless, I appreciate…and i hope pple learn to appreciate. And my opinion is, Splork is trying. He is the person who “remove all” on me and wiped all my eq before. He is also the same person who created a cravat satin that was lost due to the recent crash. Given his limited time he can spend with his kids, he still bothered to reimburse me back, of which he could just brush off blaming it on luck or whatever. As such, it’s all part of appreciation, and i have tons of that for sloth and gang.
1.37am. Really time to sleep….but i learn a sentence from Sloth
“SLEEP FOR WEAKS!” of which i do acknowledge…I’m WEAK! so here i am…going to SLEEP!
DSF wrote: P.S. I only dun appreciate one thing…that’s Tuk.
muhahaha, luv you too, ladyboy.
All hail dsfren, most playerkilled char on sloth :D
Chobbs wrote: @Jag
last player Jag
Jag’s last logon was Sat Aug 7 19:12:33 2010
[40c 40d 40m 28n 24w 22t 19o 16b] Jag %s
If I’m not mistaken, you can animate a gaunt/ghast at best. I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe you can’t find a corpse to animate either of these. Perhaps you have another character with 40 necro. Still, there is no shortage of wightable corpses. Lichable and up might be trickier; let me know which continent/which corpses you’re referring to. Aside from two or three mobs on AH, there haven’t been any corpse level lowering (that I’m aware of anyways) in months. Vague claims such as “general corpse levels lowered” doesn’t really help. Even though there are only 9606 mobiles in the game, I’m not omniscient enough to know exactly which ones you’re referring to.
Thanks,
Chobbs
Chobbs,
as we’ve discussed via email and gossip I have the same views as Jag about this shortage of corpses, its ruining the play of necros.
I’ve made a significant number of sensible suggestions to you about corpse levels after having investigated and documented over 1200 of the 9606 corpse levels in game which from the player side is slightly harder than it would be as an imm.
In my balanced suggestions I suggested raising a number of mobs and lowering others … after this research, careful thought, consideration of game balance and time consuming effort how successful was I? 2 mobs raised 3 lowered. I believe you expressed surprise at my disappointment …
Thankyou for engaging in the conversation with me let me know if you really and I mean really want more suggestions,
T
@Thraxas
Nod. It’s true, you did express similar discontent as Jag. I believe the words you used were that “there is [was] a perceived lack of availablity[sic] of corpses to collect. [emphasis added].” But I do also remember you mentioned that the lowering of the mangonel corpses, just one mob (let’s stretch it to two, since there are two of them per repop), prompted your own extensive investigation, whereupon you discovered quite a lot of other viable lv41 corpses for use, and that was just on AH alone.
Very impressive, 1200 mobs. How long did that take to get 12% of the mobs in the world? Were those all unique mobs? Did you know what level these mobs were before, or if they were even changed? If changed, when? The issue is moot though, since all I asked for were the names of the mobs that Jag believed were changed so I could investigate further, unless these 1200 mobs were the ones Jag were talking about.
Again, as I mentioned in the email responses and must stress here, there are a lot of other factors to consider when determining corpse level. Pushability of mobs, saves, wraithform considerations (seems anything 41 largely ignore wraithform), bone armor (lv41 seems to break bone armor more frequently), who knows what else I’m forgetting. I do have necros in mind, but again, I also think about the other 7 other prime classes.
“Balanced suggestions”. “Sensible suggestions”. Good. Very good use of rhetoric. I’m impressed. But please remember that both of those terms are matters of perspective, and that suggestions are just that, suggestions. I did take all of your suggestions into consideration, and I responded to 5 out of the 6 (counted dark dreams ones as one since they were all asking for the same thing: allowing undead corpses to be animateable, which again(third time now), not going to happen. If you really want, I can say I responded to 9/10). 2 mobs raised, 3 mobs lowered. Yes, that’s true. Is this the universal drop in corpses? A difference of one? The three that were dropped were 3 you didn’t know about until you investigated, so how did this affect your run again? They’re still wightable corpses, which I’m sure no necro ever uses.
Here are the changes I made:
Lowered:
- Arctic wolves [Ice Mountain] from 41 to 40 (x3. I guess these are the three mobs you mentioned)
Raised:
green dragonites [Mage Tower Ruins] 30 to 36 (or something wightable now)
Dracartan [Mage Tower Ruins] up to 41
Ice Queen [City of Ice] up to 41 (sure she’s easy for an avatar necro, but can be rough for lower level folks. blasted restorations. the entire zone is largely a corpse farming zone, just keeping in line with that)
I also told you about many more lv41 corpses that you didn’t know about, two of which you said “yes I hadn’t tried them, I have now and they’re nice corpse mobs, 1.1 - 1.3mill chop, thank for that, all the more welcome as they’re close to the chaeston guard elves, thank you.” As regards to the others, yes, you are right; they probably are very stabby mobs. Who knows, maybe they are thieves or mages or non-necros out there that might be able to kill them easier.
Surprised at your disappointment? Hardly. I expressed a bit of regret at your reaction, but I’m not naive enough to be surprised that people get disappointed when they don’t get everything they want.
@everyone
I’m always open to suggestions, but I reserve the right to say no. I will continue to provide ‘balanced’ and ‘sensible’ reasons for my objections, so you know that my objections are not baseless. But please remember that they are just suggestions.
Feel free to email suggestions to chobbs@slothmud.org and I will get back to you as soon as possible.
Thanks,
Chobbs
Hi this is Jezer :twisted: hurting others with hard truths since 2005 :mrgreen:
In the news this week…
Bad News
Useless spell damage since day 1? LOL!!!! Peri with hole in it’s bum and mana falling out, lots of 5x40 with titles needing runes fixed, shortage of corpses for necro’s. Imm diversionary tactics shooting the messengers, instead of solving the problems.
Good News
20% extra xp in some areas!
Spelldam fixed, and looking hot! :D
I seriously suggest players check skills and spells in the arena and make sure they work. Just don’t get me to report them ;)
Is anyone going to look and report whats wrong with Fleta? She’s sick :(
Can some imm consider changing the stat on the Thick Leather Belt as the str point for druids no longer needed. +5-7 mana or something? Spells saves? whaaa? PETRIFICATION SAVES!?! Now your talking!
@Jezer
Who are these imms that employ “diversionary tactics shooting the messengers, instead of solving the problems.”? The ones that fixed the spell damage problem? Or the ones that addressed the low exp in areas one? Perhaps it’s the ones that’s still trying to identify the problem, asking for a dialog with the messengers. Aha! I know. You’re referring to the ones who fixed the runes so that 5x40s changed their titles, or… yeah, I don’t know. Help me out here, please?
Thanks,
Chobbs
troll definition:
one who posts haikus a lot?
no. please see: jezer
Yeap, some bad stuff got fixed last week, can’t deny it. Good work! But spelldam not working for so long… and then the mud not being restarted as the fix was non urgent? Play down of the week! See us players with “attitude problems” find that news, and the reaction only adds to our arguments of widespread doofusing. An apology and a mud reboot probably would have kissed it little more better…
Has the peri thing been looked at, or am I too evil to be taken seriously? Is it possible it’s healing other mobs in the room in a random manner instead of targeting it’s owner. Its all I could think of in regards to the sudden drops by 20 but no heals. I could try feeding it I guess, surely Fleta wouldn’t resent me for that though? Would she? :oops:
mommy, who is that?
why does he say stupid things?
oh, that’s just jezer
reboog wrote: mommy, who is that?
why does he say stupid things?
oh, that’s just jezer
Wrong thread Goober :p This r serious thread!
insult the coders!
they don’t work for free, you know
that will get things fixed
noise. rants. stupidity.
nonsensical utterings.
thy name is jezer
new sloth holiday:
smash the jezer pinata!
let me take first swing
how come my classo
can only join xp groups?
because god hates you
how to make good game?
give every player what they want
achievement unlocked!
Regarding the corpses for necro pets - how about reducing the level of corpse required to animate certain undeads instead of changing all the mobs ingame ?
Don’t want to troll or complain, but…
Quote: Spelldam fixed, and looking hot! :D
Spelldam is fixed, but save_vs_spell working in 90-95% blasts, so mages with spellcap doing about 200-210 damage in 90-95% of blasts.
I’m fine since overall spell damage increased, but there is a long way to go with save_vs_spell fix. For example i have no save_vs_spell eq(nor 2x40 cleric have it) and save_vs_spell working on 90-95% blasts. :D
As Algor tested, ‘avalanche’ spell can’t hit player, is it bug too? :)
Anyways, i thank Splork and other imms, including Jake for keeping this MUD up and running for years. You are great!
Quote: Has the peri thing been looked at..
Yes, peris and eudaemons can ’lose concentration’ on a heal and lose mana for it – my guess for their success rate is around 80%. It was added a bit after supplicants came out.
Chobbs wrote: @Thraxas
But I do also remember you mentioned that the lowering of the mangonel corpses, just one mob (let’s stretch it to two, since there are two of them per repop)
Yes I did mention them … I was the person who highlighted their ridiculously high level for ease of kill to the imms as I did with the Arctiuc wolves. I have always and will continue to not only point out the errors and inconsistencies in the game that hurt me but also those that benefit me.
Other than that response to what I think was a very unfair pop at me the only other thing I have to add is that I like and respect Chobbs hugely as I do most of the admin team, I regret my previous posting I was trying to show support for Jag and make the point he wasnt alone in his views.
Maybe its sad to say but Sloth is a part of my life I value and care about and have done for years. Having over the past 30+ years mudding been a player, builder and imm on a large number of muds my view is that the imms here are as good as any I’ve seen and better than most, they’re what more than any other single factor makes Sloth work well.
I’ll carry on the conversation about corpses via mail rather on the crier,
T
This thread must be renamed to ‘Posers and trolls galore’. :D
What about opening 10 avatar levels instead of 5 at 4x40 and there on? The second set of 4x40 classes don’t actually “add much power” compared to the front 4, and they take exponentially longer to level.
Players almost need the full avatar powers to enjoy leveling the back set of 4x40. Relo should be moved down to a 6x40 avatar level so bigger players can move around better to “work other areas” and clear kill history to help gain extra xp for those bigger levels. I bet being stuck on one continent doesn’t help them with levels that big.
Quote: What about opening 10 avatar levels instead of 5 at 4x40 and there on?
What about call Jezer troll? :D