how about a super blast for the mages … it seems silly to me that a thief can at no mana cost cause more damage than an av mages best blast.
Maybe 10 times cost of frostbolt, 5 times the damage … gives them a chance to splork something witha blast but not repeatedly …
Traditionally thieves have always had the most lead dmg of any class in rpg. Mages have the most sustained dmg with blasting. If you make a spell that does as much dmg as a thief stabbing, whats the point of having thieves. With frostbolt and max spelldmg im thinking that most mages are getting close to the dmg of a single stab anyways.
Mike
I agree Thieves should have the best opening damage, but I do also think it’s odd that the best blast spells are 25-30 mana. A lot of chars these days have 600+ mana, I’d like to see some spell doing a little more damage but costing a lot more mana. Drop some efficiency for some speed - so that there’s a trade-off to either.
Regarding stabs, for Plato (thief second, mage last) it feels like one blast spell is a bit over half a single stab.
Thieves need poison to have better stab.
If you are talking about increasing the exp runs like this, thieves are better suited for exping, but if we are talking about eq - max dam doesn’t let you have good ac, while mages still run -10/11 90.
Still, 95% of a spell is better than stab rate.
It’s just about difference in the classos. Some do something better.
..also think it’s odd that the best blast spells are 25-30 mana. A lot of chars these days have 600+ mana, I’d like to see some spell doing a little more damage but costing a lot more mana.[/quote:ldw3cpcb]
No thanks - I waste enough time regenning as it is (and not 600 either), with that suggestion I’d double my time spent regenning relative to play because I’d have to do it far more often, and there is no fun in that whatsoever (I’m talking solo play here). It may work for a thief prime so if your horrendously powerful stab doesn’t take the mob down, one additional blast will, but that will be the death of tank types who do not have the benefit of a huge initial damage attack nor the compensating big reserve of mana, nor the high mana regen rate that some of the newer classes have.
You can also bet that mobs would be made beefier as far as how much damage they inflict just to counter that ability for certain classes to take them down so quickly before they can do much damage in return, which again would work against Warrior chopping style the most (which is becoming all but non-existent for solo play as it is)..
That’s my take on that idea anyway, unless you add new spells like ’enhanced firewind’ where you use more mana to cast the spell but it does more damage, then at least there’s an option.. but then again it would just serve to create more inbalance between classes.. hmm.
It sounds gay to me. If you have penis-envy, play a penis. Or a mage/penis at least.
Actually, this could be really funny. Soak an extra mana per damage. Watch a mage with their 800 mana walk up to something, soak it for a bolt+800 damage, pray to god that they don’t lose conc, cap, and spend the rest of the time regenning.
What sucks is when they finally lose conc, then we get to hear about how much it sucks that they have to regen again and didn’t even get to cast their spell, the mob splorked and looted them and they don’t think its fair that thieves only have to regen if they whiff and can do the same thing over again every couple seconds.
[quote:2wi00ap1]gives them a chance to splork something witha blast but not repeatedly …[/quote:2wi00ap1]
Or, the mage could go to an area like the mansion that are actually made for mages where you can splork repeatedly and easily rack up xp and gold without making any changes whatsoever. Handy to be a 40 mage with attunement and some +spelldam, etc.
95% of the game is figuring out where and how to run. If you don’t know, ask someone with your class who is higher level, they might be able to point you in the right direction. Or not. Usually if they’re on hosers or russian channel, they can point you in the right direction, even if you have to endure a little teasing. Just about anyone in DoW can hook you up, etc.
When you start running ET, Irap, Valley of Dust and Fire, Tony’s, DoT, CK, etc, you’ll start seeing just how obscenely powerful a mage can really be.
well-said
Nod, I’m obscenely powerful.
look,
necros got swordwraiths at high tards <– MORE DAMAGE/POWER
clerics got fiend at high tards <– MORE DAMAGE/POWER
druids got forms at high tards <– MORE DAMAGE/POWER
the only damage thing mages got being tards - area versa of standard spells
*** I DO AREA BLAST ONCE A YEAR LIKE OTHER MAGES DO ***
In fact the only mage spell i use rather often - improved haste and I
really really think mages should have something really new at high tard
levels.
and some minor suggestions:
how about Improved Slow ?
how about bringing back fun with frostbolt side effect (slow) ?
how about letting stab with mirrors ?
/falsra
and some minor suggestions:
- how about letting stab with mirrors ?
/falsra[/quote:6ncytg9k]
you could start with letting us stab with mirrors
during the House of the Shadows only …
/falsra
Mages do get 80 spelldam from tard levs.
But a differently named tard blast might be nice for style points :)
Mages do get 80 spelldam from tard levs.
But a differently named tard blast might be nice for style points :)[/quote:2nai847l]
only mages get spelldam bonuses from tard levels ?
- if i am not mistaken * other classes get spelldam bonuses as well.
even without mage in classo say 5.40 necro gets spelldam bonuses
from tard levels for destruction.
/falsra
Tard spelldam applies to destruction? Never knew.
In that case, yeah, it would be nice if mages got some benifits specific to their class’ prime ability at tard levs.
Not sure how you could do that without massive unbalancing/overpower though.
you get an extra mirror at avatar i think. that should be sufficient.
hehe
Pretty sure that Falsra is correct in that all the classes pick up extra spelldam. However, the only spells that can really compete with a mage’s blasts are dawnfire (outside, 2 ticks a day) and a cry of the avatars with high +chr, and that only for percent unsaved, an unsaved frostbolt will still put it to shame.
So, you can basically compare it to the restore vs. heal thing. Yeah, you’re all doing more damage, but the mage is definately doing it faster. Not to mention the necro is probably focused on +UC gear and -AC, where the mage has +90 spelldam and mirrors and +AC.
you get an extra mirror at avatar i think. that should be sufficient.
[/quote:28h0kf4i]
no, no extra mirrors.
max = 4, ( 5 if masterful )
:twisted:
/falsra
ok im sorry, was wrong
5.40 mages should get beacon of fortune (back) :twisted:
UC gear is only for summoning, you would have to be oblivous to run around and kill stuff with it on. smoke
That’s like saying +hp gear is only for the beginning of the run. Perhaps undead pets could be coded like max hp / max mana. The effects could dynamically wax or wane depending on your current UC gear, instead of being locked at the time of summoning.
No wonder necro’s are overpowered!
Perhaps you should worry about your own class instead of trying to get someone elses nerfed. My tank when he was -9 died less in a mage tower ruins than my necro at -9 w/ pets so Ill thank you to say necros are not overpowered. while I dont play a mage/thief i think stabbing w/ mirrors would be a nice prime ability.
Alias
just remember… everytime you nerf a necro skill/spell
that adds 10 more days to Guinex raping your corpse! :shock:
I don’t know how we expect the imms to fix these things if noone will talk about them.
[quote:r0n6jx96]help awaken
…
4x40/25 elder ent rooted
Multiple 40s in level are “counted from” the position of druid class
in the caster’s classo. So, for example, a Ne/Dr/Ma/Cl would be able
to awaken slime molds at 4x40 and elder ents never.
[/quote:r0n6jx96]
[quote:r0n6jx96]help summon undead
…
Banshee 3x40 40
Phantom 4x40+25 50
Swordwraith 5x40 60
[/quote:r0n6jx96]
So, supplication and the druid awaken spells are limited by the position of the class in your classorder. Necro isn’t limited this way.
In my own opinion, necro isn’t the one that’s broken. It’s nice to have abilities that work no matter what position the class is. I wish more classes were as useful.
I’ve got to go visit family for Christmas, so won’t be posting for awhile.
Talking of this, you’ll get necros really nerfed, and then EVERYONE will suffer, cause necros help us all get eq in the groups. If you don’t agree, go blast krimeah :))
Balance of the undeads for necromancer class is pretty bad. Summon undead sucks, even phantoms with +8 undead control die FAST. For all that mana, I’d rather just frostbolt. Banshees are completely worthless now, a brilliant gift for any tri 40 necromancer. And undead control eq can only be worn when you summon undead, doesn’t seem right.
What Tony DIDN’T want for undeads is the best use for them, and that’s in groups. When I asked him why do undeads steal exp from groups, his reply was “because I don’t want a group with an army of undead behind them”.
Here’s my thoughts on the subject:
1: More than double the hit points for summoned undead.
2: Half the damage the undead do.
3: Make it so UC eq has to be worn at all times or the undead control affects go away.
4: Make the UC have ac, and/or add more UC with ac +stats.
5: Summoned mobs attack other summoned mobs when grouped with another player.
6: Give banshees hp more than wraiths.
And another thought, avatars should be able to cast all supplicants, or at least all those up to tri40 :(. Avatar 40 can’t even cast a kachina :P.
-Toxis
I think that the current balance is good. Some class combinations are definately more compatible or better than others for certain things, but all have advantages in some ways.
I still think that some basic spells should be added to all caster classes because they are basic utility skills. They would not upset the game balance in any way. in particular this include
lloyds beacon
gate
locate oject
knock
I also think that all classes should be able to see in inventory, although some with lower probability of success. Having 0% kind of sucks for CRs and such.
Regarding supplicants and summon undead, I think that more slightly specialized types should be added at periodic levels, each tuned for fighting specific types of mobs. Many of the existing undead types seem fairly useless. I also think that a supplicant in between peri and eudaemon for healing would be nice.
Just my $0.02
Victory
And another thought, avatars should be able to cast all supplicants, or at least all those up to tri40 :(. Avatar 40 can’t even cast a kachina :P.[/quote:3rrwlauj]
Kachina is a 2x40 supplication, and a 5x40 quad-cl can supplicate for it.
[quote:1dd9z8kp]Kachina is a 2x40 supplication, and a 5x40 quad-cl can supplicate for it.[/quote:1dd9z8kp]
Yep, any 5x40 quad cleric but not Brad :twisted:
Hell, Brad can’t even supplicate 1x20 supp :D
It is fun to see how every class discussion ends with necro discussion 8)
I do not play and do not plan to play necro and i dont know if
necro powerful or weak class. I care about my class and so far i see:
UNLIKE other caster classes mages have NO followers
( please, do not tell me about familiars )
UNLIKE other caster classes mages do NOT get class related spells/bonuses from tard levels but rare using area versa of standard spells.
( please do not tell me about standard tard bonuses for all classes like +dam +spelldam etc )
I do not want see mages ( or any other class ) overpowered but i think
a single tard-mage damage spell with damage dealt depending on mage
plase in classo would be nice ( like supps depends on clerics place ).
/falsra
btw, i do not like the way area spells work.
much earlier area spell affected all mobs and players in the same room
but groupmates. now it affects only mobs fighting you in this moment.
There’s no point comparing classos all together. Much of this topic has come up again and yet again, whine.
The Mage classo is by itself and proves otherwise a different style of play on Sloth in comparison to the other available classes. Fuck if mages can’t summon shit, they have all range offensive spells that other classes do not offer. Fuck, there’s so much more to a mage than in reason showed.
I say stfu and play likewise.
Regards,
Chi
Merry Christmas my fellow Slothers :-)
You dont understand Ker/Chi.
Mages got frostbost at 38lev.
And frostbolt stays the only offensive spell mages blast no matter how
more levels and tard levels they gain.
We see necros-tards controlling hordes of swordwraiths,
We see druids-tards running shifted in new forms ( piasa, waterdragon ? )
We see clerics-tards running with pit fiends.
And we see mages-tards casting the same frostbolts they learned at 38lev.
Feel the difference ?
/falsra
Again me…
I know, i spam the crier :)
Just thought about alternate way to feature mages-tards:
instead of new spells at tard levels we could have an additional side
effects for standard spells like firewind and frostbolt at tard levels.
Effect could depend upon tard levels and say may have a chance
to add magic missle at low tards or fireball at high tards to firewind,
chill touch at low tards or ice ray at high btards to frostbolt.
Not a big deal cuz players cannot count much on side effects, but still
featuring mages-tards :)
/falsra
Oleg, you got prime attunement:p
Don’t remember who told me about followers last time, but… you always can charm army of kobolds:)
And frostbolt stays the only offensive spell mages blast no matter how
more levels and tard levels they gain.
/falsra[/quote:1yaz5w8c]
not quite true (unless you just run oly or something)
ET 2nd floor mobs all resist different spells.
Lots of stuff resists frost (maybe not quite as many as are nofire, but enough)
I use frostbolt/firewind/thunderclap about equally, depending on the area i’m in.
I’ll vote for letting mages stab with mirrors up though :) Doesn’t change anything in groups since no mage is going to compete with a thief for damage, but it would give us some more options for soloing.
Aleks nice to see you :)
Mages smell like cheese etc.
Sorry for posting so much arguable content right before Christmas. I’m with family now, and I can only hope that all of you are having as good a time. I’m so thankful for the holidays, it gives me a chance to recuperate and do a full regen.
Merry Christmas!
Specific comments:
I don’t know much about mage prime, so no comments there. My one feedback would be to avoid abilities that work differently depending on the classo position. I dislike the way supplication works, and I’d hate to see more abilities added that work similarly. I’d rather see spells that work the same for everyone, then if we want to add prime-only abilities I see that as a lesser evil.
Second, regarding the area effect spells - these work differently depending on whether you’re already engaged in combat or not. All of the area blast spells only hit the mobs you’re engaged with, unless you’re not yet engaged. Quake is maybe the only exception? - besides some of the newer spells.
Oleg, you got prime attunement:p
Don’t remember who told me about followers last time, but… you always can charm army of kobolds:)[/quote:39ex0fld]
It was definitely a reply from a necromancer ( last player Stranger )!
come back already :P
If you noticed i didnt mention prime abilities.
I just pointed the fact that mages tards have almost nothing new but same
frostbolt firewind. Even attunement is a single 40ma spell.
And btw, 41lvl mobs ( most of lyme mobs ) still save like 4 of 5 spells
strongly attuned to channeling mages prime cast upon it.
/falsra
First of all, I disagree that mage primes smell like cheese. The rotten skin under that finger turban might, however. I do think that a 5x40 mage prime damage spell seems more than fair; maybe something like a wizard’s wrath. Alternately, something like a short term ethereal spell along the lines of wraithform would also seem to be fair and appropriate. I love the addition of excrutiating blow, but cmon…buffing thieves? Throw us a bone already. Oh an I would also like gossip back…Aaron is a putz.
Nod, I’m obscenely powerful.[/quote:33c51hpo]
hotbot, yer just obscene….but we love ya anyways smooch
rebs
[quote:2eg7xbwq]Oh an I would also like gossip back…Aaron is a putz.[/quote:2eg7xbwq]
The Gods have taken away your ability to shout for 17 days!