So I notice that old school primes still dominate by a huge majority. So can anyone tell me whats wrong with Bard, Monk, Druid primes. I rarely see any of these and as I have a pretty strong bard I was just wondering whats up. Is it hard work not having 100 people to ask how to play? Or do these classos suck or what. Toss it around.
For me Druid prime is the ultimate supporting class, especially quad caster. Monks can be slow but deal a good amount of dmg for free. Bards, well they are the bread and butter when you know your songs and applications.
i’ve made hrm, 3 new class primes over the years… 2 monks and a bard… it’s honestly way too much of a pain being a newbie again to make it worthwhile to get the chars to where they are fun to play, and I don’t generally like sponging in groups… and besides I can barely keep 2 avatars equipped with newbish gear as-is, I’d go broke with another one :)
I do like the idea of monks though, blasting stuff is all well and good, but pounding them senseless with your bare hands is just cool
Good topic Medios…
*The other night 19 people were on, not one of them had bard in any position of there classo.
*30-40% of new characters is putting druid second
*Regular playing Prime Bards and Druids are so few, you can nearly name them all on two hands.
*Prime Bards/Druids/Monks rarely play into Avatar.
*New classos are generally slower at solo xp
*Less eq (in game/drachma) for new classos… although sometimes the little we have is better quality.
Another thing… and I haven’t thought this through much, and it could just be because I am 4 x Caster… but we have way too many spells for the amount of mana we have… Try keeping up…
Stamina
Rejuv
Aegis
Haste
Wraithform
Dark Sight
Shield of Thorns
Detect Invis
Strength
Natures Revivial
Not a wonder most new people play druid 2nd.
Could this information be a call to improve classes with more skills in the future… instead of more spells? I think primes could also be enhanced by one extra skill per class… ie, the difference between druid prime and non prime is stuff all.
ie, the difference between druid prime and non prime is stuff all.[/quote:3keqpzxm]
There’s just as much difference between druid prime and second as there is between most other classes in the same spots.
So druid prime gets several hundred more hp on forms and 20(ish) more mr than second. Mage prime gets 20 more spelldam and mirror image. Clerics, 20 more healbonus, some supps and aeriel. Monk gets wraithtouch and faster focus. I could go on and on.
There’s also an increasing amount of prime shift eq.
deleted comment.. not really relevant to thread subject
Talk about bard/druid/monk aside…
My opinion is some sloth classos are not prime enough. (In particular the new ones)
Lose twenty spellbonus shifting mage down? Big Deal
Lose a 20mr when you gain +mr choosing druid? Big Deal
Lose a few points dam reduction for putting monk lower? Big Deal
As opposed to…
Lose parry and weapon dam and dam reduct for not putting warrior first…
Lose thief skills for not putting thief first…
Lose juju for not putting necro first…
It’s the prime skills and how the other skills work at a lower class order that are causing this… make a cl mo th ma or something like that… tell me how you enjoy it! Now make a th ma mo cl… how do you like it now? :twisted:
damage reduction is monk skill, not warrior dude.. although I wish it was..
weapon damage comes with eq.. it’s not a skill of any sort…
although in saying that, I believe multipliers come into effect depending on class..
parry is helpful, but it doesn’t work on every round, yet costs one attack on every round whether it actually works or not.. some warriors run without it, depending on the mob they’re hitting..
Hmm, who told be warriors actually have dam reduct built into the class? (But not as an ability etc) Maybe I read it at wikipedia… that would explain it… :twisted:
EDIT: Actually, I believe I picked this up in one of the “Can a monk tank like a warrior” type threads, and of course all the warriors are like no ya newb! Warriors are awesomeness etc etc, and monk dude was like… but hey damage reduction… and warrior guy was like no ya idiot… etc etc
lol.. yeah wikipedia, fountain of.. err.. something kinda sludgy..
personally I think warriors aren’t great at all, although much depends on the supporting classes.. old school warrior certainly not what it used to be, relative to others..
I’m not scared to say whats on my mind so here goes.
Druids: Too many drawbacks being a druid prime at low level as low druid shifts aren’t as good as other prime classo abilities. Hell I have dragon form and can run at -11 and its more efficient to kill blasting at -1 than shifting to dragon at 3x40 mage.
Monks: grip is not as good as stab,hell they don’t even get grip till level 23 or 25 or so. Monks don’t tank as well as warriors and don’t support well except to fill in between the meat and the casters.
whee melee damage….
Bards: singing is great, solo potential is not as good as a warrior, thief, druid, mage, cleric. Bard is a great group char but if not in a group is limited by the knowledge of the player. singing gods for 13 people at an average of 3 attacks a round is 390 damage a round….not so great considering thats 1 good bolt. Double the damage from gods for a bard prime to 20 and then Ill play one again.
Necro: unless you know what your doing here your dead more than alive. while very powerful, also very crunchy unless played correctly.
having said all that I enjoyed playing my bard immensely and love my necro to death. I don’t have a druid prime nor a monk prime.
and this is about newer chars not the very experienced ones who play the classo to the fullest. Stryx, Daedelus, Minstrel, Nab can not be considered when speaking about newb chars starting a class. There are more successful necros than the other new prime classes, Guinex, Giselle, Adagio, Quake, Thraxas, Cicada, and so on. I think this was part of the reason that necros were brought back in line w/ the other classes.
to make a powerful necro, druid, monk, or bard takes lots more time and skill than making a warrior to bleed or a cleric to heal, ect. So if you want more people to play the newer classos make them more viable to play.
Just my random thoughts before I go study some more….see you all in a few more weeks…
Alias/Pooka
good luck with exams
And to fix warriors I still believe that if u had a high level necro spell that would allow wraithform to be cast on another…ie the tank it would make all the old-school warriors more viable as tanks again.
well it’s not quite wraithform, but we have defy.. however it only lasts a few rounds, and can only be used once a day.. and that’s real time once a day, not mud time, so can’t really be considered or relied upon imho..
Why not take the druid approach to defy pain… then you could use it more! but only between breakfast and scones with jam at morning tea! :twisted:
well it’s not quite wraithform, but we have defy.. however it only lasts a few rounds, and can only be used once a day.. and that’s real time once a day, not mud time, so can’t really be considered or relied upon imho..[/quote:f4jfx2rb]
For a lot of mobs, it trumps the hell out of wraithform (although it takes some time to get the levels).
As for using once a real-time day, that didn’t used to be case. I’m not sure if it changed but back in the day, I was using it about every other repop.
Lose twenty spellbonus shifting mage down? Big Deal
Lose a 20mr when you gain +mr choosing druid? Big Deal
Lose a few points dam reduction for putting monk lower? Big Deal
[/quote:f4jfx2rb]
Uhhh.
… it’s honestly way too much of a pain being a newbie again to make it worthwhile to get the chars to where they are fun to play.[/quote:f4jfx2rb]
Amen brotha.
Uhhh.[/quote:3smwzdkj]
Take it with a grain of salt Brady… who has these things capped before avatar?
I put mage 4th in my classo, cause I know I’ll never have a billion drachma to buy the spellbonus.
My prime monks wear a whooping +1 dam reduction, with drachma and 5x40 being the main key to get more… (Anyone ever got damage reduct maxed?)
I’m saying what do caps matter… when you can’t reach them anyways!
Well most people will assume you eventually intend to get avatar, how can you possibly hope to compare classes when they’re not being evaluated at their peak?
And you can cap spelldam without drachma eq. Unless you’re prime, in which case you’ll need to buy a spelldam robe, but people generally tend to buy the drach robe that matches their prime.
In the end, you very much can reach most of the caps, but 5x40 is integral to getting the most out of a char.
Yet another phrase I repeat often, Sloth is supposed to be a multiclass mud. Having a prime class != single class char.
How can you possibly hope to compare classes when they’re not being evaluated at their peak?[/quote:228di2t3]
Well, I’m not so sure Ryn… Prime Druid level 1 to 38 sucks majorly… sure it’s the bee’s knees in avatar. But the fact is it sucks majorly early on. It certainly would make me think twice about playing the prime again…
Hence maybe we answered Medios question… in part… some new primes suck before avatar, therefore causing players to make less new primes? I think this is a fair comment, but only part of the answer.
Tried some of those classes personally, so here is what I found
First dr/cl/ma/ba - in theory a potent class, that will have huge regen to heal in groups and rely on shapeshifts to solo.
In practice It took me 6 hours to get to level 8, mainly because shapeshifts suck so much, the cats ferrets and dogs and frogs are so weak, it makes you laugh. By level 20 you have an asp and wolf for your solo abilities, which have like -1ac or so or 2 very hard attacks ? Screw that. Played it till level 20 and forgot the name of the char.
Next class was mo/ma/cl/wa - In theory, damage reduction, good hand damage, with good mana to blast some of those thicker mobs.
In practice it took me 2 hrs to get to level 8, spent a week or so to roll good stats. Realising that it is impossible to roll good strength unless you are mo/wa (but that defeats the whole point),which hinders your hand damage, unless you get a bunch of strength items which will make your AC suck bad and in turn makes you more into a thief, than a bare handed warrior. So whats the problem you say, well the problem for me is that deathgrip is available from level 25 - so while thieves have the ability to stab mobs from level 1, you have to rely on strike and your hand damage and crappy mana with crappy regen untill then. Got the char to level 20 and stored it away for further use and made a
Next choice wa/ne/cl/mo - I know its an original class, but its here for the comparison. In theory - good AC, good strength, good intelligence from necro second, some undeads when you really need them, and deathgrip at higher levels and minor damage reduction from monk as well. In theory – double attack is level 1 and charge is level 3, so it took me like 40 mins to get level 8. Took me a few days to roll good stats, good strength int,dex and con, everything as it should be. And let me tell you, the class turned out to be exactly what it should be, unlike all the previous attempts. Good ac -8ac by level 20, opposed to -1 on druid, 2 massacre attacks (sometimes brutally) with a holy sword and frenzy at 18.100 strength and good starter attack when you have a horse (charge). Sensible mana – enough to summon minor undeads, good HP to tank in valk groups. Peri came in at 3x20 and things became a walk in the park – I really enjoyed playing this char and it turned out to be in Practice, everything that it was in Theory. I still enjoy playing this char once in awhile, very potent class. What I realized at 3x20 that i need more mana and regen to make me happy because I played a quad caster before, so steered away from that class as my prime char.
Never made a bard, but that is next on my list.
This is my experience with new classes, take from it what you will.
I’ve noticed we’re focusing in on Bard/Monk/Druid and leaving Necro out of the discussion. As a newish player to Sloth and Necro prime, I see a good handful of other Necro primes out there makin’ their way in the world. Sure, you want to have a good supporting classo to make you less ‘crunchy’ but I’d say that the thought and effort put into Necro was well done. We’re not super powerful but we can hold our own if we choose the right classo and learn how to mud.
I have druid and bard in my classo because someone told me I should and I haven’t regretted it. This is just me, but I was watching Dogs in a group a few months back and was amazed by the damage he was dishing out. I immediately started a newbie with his classo! And Mike’s bard is amazing and if I wanted to start another char, I’d try to build one just like that.
I think people would play Druid/Monk/Bard primes when they have examples of those people really strutting their stuff. Nothing like a little ‘keeping up with the Jones’ to make a mud happy.
I’ve noticed we’re focusing in on Bard/Monk/Druid and leaving Necro out of the discussion. As a newish player to Sloth and Necro prime, I see a good handful of other Necro primes out there makin’ their way in the world. Sure, you want to have a good supporting classo to make you less ‘crunchy’ but I’d say that the thought and effort put into Necro was well done. We’re not super powerful but we can hold our own if we choose the right classo and learn how to mud.
I have druid and bard in my classo because someone told me I should and I haven’t regretted it. This is just me, but I was watching Dogs in a group a few months back and was amazed by the damage he was dishing out. I immediately started a newbie with his classo! And Mike’s bard is amazing and if I wanted to start another char, I’d try to build one just like that.
I think people would play Druid/Monk/Bard primes when they have examples of those people really strutting their stuff. Nothing like a little ‘keeping up with the Jones’ to make a mud happy.[/quote:2vw51raa]
maybe you should have read my entire post….