I know someone has mentioned this idea before… but I think one of the best ways of improving the mud player base is actually making it so sloth can be played through a java applet in a web browser.
Often my online friends claim to be bored, or ask me what I’m doing, when I tell them about sloth, most visit the website, some of them even get as far as clicking the telnet window but none never get any further because of the “setup” that’s really required to play sloth in the context of eq changes and group targets.
Clients and scripting is biased to computer and tech savy people, if you want to appeal to a wider (younger) set of people… How many of us don’t play from other locations because we “don’t have our scripts with us.” If you want to show the world that graphics aren’t really what makes games so fun, it’s more about depth and community… you have to make the game accessible…. I bet hundreds of people visit the site each month but never play, because they are looking for a way to get in… they probably think telnet is some batch script formatting there hard drive. The DOS Prompt and Telnet are dead technologies… DOS prompts have more in common with the computers booting up and failing than they do fun games.
Sloth is not dying, but it is in slow decline… I think this is the only way the future could be assured.
And while we are porting… lets go sql backend… :twisted:
[url:fycnzxjm]http://anyterm.org/[/url:fycnzxjm]
[url:fycnzxjm]http://shellinabox.com/[/url:fycnzxjm]
if you want to appeal to a wider (younger) set of people…[/quote:36jy9u45]
This ain’t gonna happen.
“Younger set of people” are lazy and dumb, they want something for their eyes, not for imagination they lack of by the way. They won’t write scripts even if they are familiar with some sort of programming language, won’t put years of efforts to make their character cool etc.
They want to be cool here and now, w/o actually working to become so. Also, they want to kill other people.
They dont belong here.
Telnet function isn’t even installed by default in windows anymore. Then they have to figure out how to turn the localecho and ansi colors on. If they want to use the most current version of wintin, they need to install the .net protocols.
If Yasix is correct, it may be a moot point. Tragic :cry:
Bah, when we give up, sloth isn’t in decline… it’s actually dead. You can’t tell me that we wouldn’t get more players if the game were more accessible… We have got two problems… we aren’t really out there… secondly when we get past being out there, everyone has to jump through hoops to play. If I read that technology right, sloth doesn’t have to even be rewritten it would just be “accessible” through a console in a web browser. We got to keep up with the times, it doesn’t mean we have to change who we are… we just need to change the approach.
If we want to keep up with times, then we should buy Unreal 3D engine and start developing full-scale 3D-graphics client.
We got to keep up with the times, [b:8sejsdot]it doesn’t mean we have to change who we are…[/b:8sejsdot] we just need to change the approach.[/quote:8sejsdot]
No Yasik, sloth is text based, and that’s part of it’s charm, sloth has extraordinary depth, it’s a great game without graphics, it’s just different… but just as cool.
Go on and explain the charm to those you want to come here and play, or rather wander randomly asking for eq and coins being perma-hungry and thirsty, then abandon after 2 weeks.
I’ve always found the attitudes some people hold towards new players in various online games baffling.
Everyone likes playing with people at their own level of skill and experience, but without new players it just doesn’t work. You don’t have to help new players if you don’t want to, you don’t even have to be around them, but open hostility towards them damages all aspects of the game you presumably enjoy.
Take this thread alone, and the message it would send to someone browsing the site and considering playing.
“Younger set of people” are lazy and dumb, they want something for their eyes, not for imagination they lack of by the way. They won’t write scripts even if they are familiar with some sort of programming language, won’t put years of efforts to make their character cool etc.
They want to be cool here and now, w/o actually working to become so. Also, they want to kill other people.
They dont belong here.[/quote:2xk5xkdv]
Go on and explain the charm to those you want to come here and play, or rather wander randomly asking for eq and coins being perma-hungry and thirsty, then abandon after 2 weeks.[/quote:2xk5xkdv]
A broad, sweeping statement against “young” players, who I think it’s fair to say comprise a decent fraction of potential new players. And what looks pretty much like a shot against anyone who doesn’t already know how to play.
Not everyone who tries the game will like it or stay, but some will. As long as people are actually creating a char and trying it out we’ll continue to gain new long-term players.
That’s just crap Yasik, not everyone is the same.
You make out like, out of the 6 billion people in the world there are only 30 people who will ever play sloth and these are the current hardcore players… that’s a load of crap. I would have played sloth years ago, if I had known… if I had accessibility.
It’s just all too hard… or people don’t care… sloth will die with this attitude… no biggie, I’ll play something else. We will only have ourselves to blame though.
A new post for new subject matter…
Jezer makes an excellent point. The possibility of making a web interface for Sloth would make the game far more accessible, and encourage more people who find the site to try it. Even if it was just a stepping stone into getting a “real” client.
Of course a coder would have to have the time to do it. But it’s a worthwhile project to have on the list.
Take this thread alone, and the message it would send to someone browsing the site and considering playing.[/quote:3seqxjna]
I might be taking this in a context Ryn didn’t intend… but it’s the old “stuck in the mud” players mindsets that is actually one of the biggest things killing the game.
It’s why I dish out on a lot of old players… it’s not that I don’t like them… or respect them… but I’m afraid there time is past, and they are holding progress back. There comes a time when the old must die, and in trust things must be handed over to the new… unfortunately things of the past have such a tight grasp of the game, unless it unravels I don’t see a future.
Sloth needs fresh new ideas to continue… it needs pains in the backside like me always thinking of new suggestions/improvements/expansions, it needs more Jugglebloods that actually get stuff done.
Hamper these things, exercise your iron grasp to keep everything the same… it’s eventually going to die.
Well, maybe you’re right, i was a bit unfriendly, but that’s because of my experience in other aspect of online gaming, Lineage.
As for Sloth, newbs come, behave helpless and clueless, anger Brad and the group disbanded, so in the end I lose opportunity to earn exp.
As for java stuff in browser window - the more complex thing is - the more ways to exploit bugs etc. As half-admin/half-coder (not in Sloth, of course) i’d vote for not make things complicated or intricated above some “neeed” level of complexity.
Years ago i managed to get a client, develop my own set of scripts constantly improving, then moved to another client, learned Perl, moved to Linux, now i’m rewriting everything from beginnings.
I’d never done this if i had a browser and a mouse, i’d been clicking mindlessly all this years.
Rynquald wrote:
Take this thread alone, and the message it would send to someone browsing the site and considering playing.[/quote:2ux8lxql]
I might be taking this in a context Ryn didn’t intend… but it’s the old “stuck in the mud” players mindsets that is actually one of the biggest things killing the game. [/quote:2ux8lxql]
Since I’m not entirely sure whether you we agreeing with me or calling me “stuck in the mud” I’ll clarify :)
In that line I was exclusively referring to anti-newb sentiment sending a negative message, not actually the entire thread.
Years ago i managed to get a client, develop my own set of scripts constantly improving, then moved to another client, learned Perl, moved to Linux, now i’m rewriting everything from beginnings.
I’d never done this if i had a browser and a mouse, i’d been clicking mindlessly all this years.[/quote:1hk2ylhv]
That’s a good point too, and the required effort to actually get started playing Sloth could serve as a kind of shield against some problematic (troll-like) players.
Hypothetically, if we somehow made it trivially easy to start playing and got a large number of casual players along with new long-term ones, maintaining the level of order we enjoy could become an active task. But still, while we could have to deal with some of the problems larger MMOs face, it would be preferable to the slow death of Sloth.
Heh, wasn’t refering to to you Ryn… was refering to the older players who are anti change and are often expressing there “haha noob” statements, about everyone else. We still got players whining about new classo’s for goodness sake… retire! :twisted: Your WERE awesome, now you suck, get with it or leave. Not all old players are like that… some I think want progress just as much… just sick of the same ruts.
Was is mandos or agemo that logged in recently and said something like… is lyme cap gone yet?… the reply was no… can I buy dam yet? the reply was no… has such and such a bug been fixed…. the reply was no… on which they replied… going back to bed… :D
Jezer makes an excellent point. The possibility of making a web interface for Sloth would make the game far more accessible, and encourage more people who find the site to try it. Even if it was just a stepping stone into getting a “real” client.
Of course a coder would have to have the time to do it. But it’s a worthwhile project to have on the list.[/quote:7ao9hgh1]
This strikes me as best done without modifying the MUD itself; make your web interface talk the usual plain text with the mud. If a particular piece of state is difficult to get this way, ask a coder to expose that data via mxp. You could complete this project independent of game management, though an endorsed web interface accessible via slothmud.org would see more use.
maybe if some of us could come up with a “starter package” for newbies to start playing sloth, it would make it more condusive for people to try sloth out?
like a package of simple scripts with explanations on how to use them and what they’re for, etc., and installation instructions too
installing .net on vista is a bit tricky, but can be done with a simple walkthrough of it…
any suggestions/opinions?
another thing i’ve encountered when getting people to start playing the mud is that once they log on, they have no idea what to do, or what they have to do.
I would volunteer to do this, and so could alot of people…
have a page on the website, with screenshots and all, explaining various aspects of the game, like how to move, talk, interact, where to go, etc etc
Heh, wasn’t refering to to you Ryn… was refering to the older players who are anti change and are often expressing there “haha noob” statements, about everyone else. We still got players whining about new classo’s for goodness sake… retire! :twisted: Your WERE awesome, now you suck, get with it or leave. Not all old players are like that… some I think want progress just as much… just sick of the same ruts.[/quote:1jr8r2mn]
Well that’s REAL intelligent - on a thread about how to increase the player base, you’ve just alienated many of the dedicated long-term players that have kept this mud going for years, and told them to leave. How fapping stupid..
For the record; change is good, when it’s done right.
:evil:
as much as I get tired of the constant whinging about new classos making old ones obsolete, I think you jezer whine more than anyone about how the mud should be catered to only what U need and how you wwant to play :P
Honour and drachma shifted… how long have we known about the bugs? 6 months… a year… who can fix it? 3 or 4 people… why are we still waiting?
So they don’t have any time… perfectly understandable… but why aren’t they allowing others to progress faster up the ranks so it can be fixed by someone… there are all these trust issue’s all the time… it’s just holding the game back… all this old happening in the past crap. Back in the old days rubbish, “don’t increase there powers, because I’m old classo and I got a raw deal” rar rar rar, blah blah blah, “I’m old, I’m awesome, your not as good as me, haha”, “new classo is overpowered”… for the sake of sloth… like if you really care about the game… let go… or retire… lets move on. Your just being a stumbling block to progress… you alienated yourself.
BTW, I thought gimlets ideas were pretty cool… and might I add, if they extended the in game aliases, or had a list of default aliases, new players could pick up faster without scripts etc. As much as wintin is nice when it works…. it’s hell when it doesn’t and it corrupts your config windows etc. It has some pretty big memory leaks occasionally with finding and using timers… and they tend to corrupt stuff.
I wish there was a means, where by we could become junior coders… where by we could earn trust, just by fixing stuff we get given to do by higher imms. I’ve thought about designing an area, and I’ve written some descriptions… but this is not me… I’m a programmer! :evil: I’m not about to sell the code, post it online, add +10 dam to druid forms… just give me a chance to make a contribution that suits my skill sets… Even I could probably get sloth working through some java console in a web browser if I was just given the license and trust to give it a go.
You know what - if your character suddenly got severely nerfed (or everyone else got a huge boost), out of the entire mud, I imagine you would be the one making the most noise about an uneven playing field and ranting on how unfair it is - heck, you do it already when you’re playing at an advantage!
Secondly, I’d love to stab you in the face right now. But I’ll get over that.
You will likely get your wish though, I’ve had enough of little know-it-all noobie fcukers like you telling everyone else how it should be. Go fcuk yourself. When you’ve spent nearly a decade building up your character I’ll be very very glad to come back, immort, and then bend you over and nerf your character(s) so hard up the ass that you’ll be blowing sh*t out your nose for weeks.
It is a few self-centered dickheads like you that almost killed this mud.
/rant.
yep, I feel better now, thanks.
:evil:
chill weasel
you weren’t the only one who got his char nerfed. Heck, even people who made new classes have constantly gotten their chars nerfed, while stuff were being added in plenty for old classes.
some of your rants are legitimate, in fact most are. but you chose to stay on and mud which means you prob enjoy the game an awful lot, like most of us. But I have to agree with you that the new players who come in telling the oldies to STFU and either make a new char or get lost…it’s kinda gay
Actually developing a java console or web interface to play the game has been on our todo list for quite some time.
Jezer,
Feel free to start working on one for us. This can be done without any access to Sloth's code. It would basically be a stand alone client as the rest of them are. There are quite a few spread over the internet already, here is one that has caught my eye recently;
http://dum.acc.umu.se/~pathor/software/soiled/
It can be used as an app on facebook and possibly myspace with some alterations.
Ive contacted Kjartan about the shapeshift and honor bugs, hopefully he will have time to look at them relatively soon.
Also, we could use a trustworthy volunteer to work on our website and it’s code. Anyone interested please contact me online or via email.
Splork
sloth as a facebook app would be mucho neato :)
Tried getting that think to work, but it would appear, the server hosting the script files needs to provide a security policy file for flash, I keep getting a security error :( Flash/Web isn’t really my field… scratching my head here.
This sort of thing was originally what I had in mind…
[url:169wmcot]http://www.mudconnect.com/java/Telnet/[/url:169wmcot]
A java based telnet app would be great as well, Jezer.
I expect it on my desk by next Saturday.
Splork
Screw all that, its time to go graphical,thats right, I’m talking about
WORLD[/color:14y491xr][/size:14y491xr]
OF[/size:14y491xr][/color:14y491xr]
SLOTHMUD[/size:14y491xr][/color:14y491xr]
I got this one loading nicely as an applet in a web browser…
[url:1mt73olv]http://javassh.org/space/Installing+the+Applet[/url:1mt73olv]
Suspect the only reason I get access denied trying to connect to sloth is that my web host is not permitting the outgoing connection to sloth (Security Permission). Worth a look…
The new apps may be helping already. Our numbers seem to be improving. Lets push the voting and get our tmc ranking back up. Pleaaasseeee vote.
I asked three different newbies yesterday where they were logging in from, one said facebook, and the other two said our website.
I have the myspace one almost completed, it is waiting for approval.
I will post a link soon.
Splork
Possibly, posting introductory logs, showing how it’s played and how tough chars/mobs can be, might help.
A chance to play a powerful character w/o a chance to give out eq to other chars might help, too.
This comes from the fact that one (ok, me) needs to know how good it is in a few levels to make up the mind on whether to play or not.
For example, say a person has chosen a classo and he’s chosen to login as the first time playing the game (separate option during login or char creation phase). He’ll be able to play the char at 4x20 and see how it is. In an hour, the char’s back at 1 0 0 0.
Of course, it doesn’t remove the need to know what to do: eat, drink, sleep, use spells, weapons, etc. Possibly, the introductory logs might be more helpful in this regard.
As for a call for more builders, I haven’t seen anyone mention the benefits of immorting anywhere: usually only those, who have been playing the MUD for years, learn to want to immort. This isn’t that bad, but the choice of imms is limited.
Perhaps, if it were easier to write areas/mobs and make them widely accessible it’d help keeping the imms active and let the newcomers create something worth playing with. Walking was a hassle, irrc, and it might be easily replaced with a spell checker in some cases.
While there seem to be common mob types that imms create, newcomers might add something new to the mix by mixing the unmixable that’d require minimum supervision to approve.
Also, the people leave, when they see lots of good ideas rejected or postponed with “we dont have time for this”.
I tried to search for the sloth app on facebook. I went to applications and search and got nada.
Check my topic about the facebook application location. It is not searchable yet at facebook until they approve that part of it. Which should be soon.
Splork
we’re rocketing up tmc…
vote vote vote
i can help improve the player base