Jake asked the question on gossip about people’s opinions on grouping etc…
He talked about the mentality of people not grouping because there were “no tanks”…
Making grouping more fun.
Grouping at lower levels.
Lots of people had opinions… And there are probably a whole bunch more. I’ve got a bunch of opinions but in group at the moment… will post later heh.
*The changes to castle hindered the progress of new leaders
*Epics killed the frequency of XP Groups (Good XP, requires Tards)
*Two man is often faster xp than any xp group
*XP loss and Looting discourages people from trying new things
*Spam in groups makes it easy for important factors to be missed.
*The protect system leads to botting
*Sponging makes people never learn anything new
*Groups too dependent on warrior and cleric classes (Staying Alive, #4)
*Valk (the training ground) is nearly all solo, with badish xp.
*Some classes don’t really have group skills (druid) and once a necro has debuffed, or a thief/monk has his two seconds with an opener… groups are pretty much all about warriors and cleric’s healing them.
*2 man xp always seems better than 3man? (Because 3men run 2men mobs)
I think these are some of the problems… but I don’t think they are very big. I group because of the social aspect and the colorful characters that play this game and make it entertaining!
So how can we making grouping better?
Well, I was stuck for ideas, then I started thinking about the military… and then I thought, why not introduce group “vehicles.” Mobs that can be “ridden” by a group and used by certain players at certain levels etc, unlocked by autoquest or something. Imagine for 30mins riding around on the back of a dinosaur having mobility and maybe ac a little higher.
The basic concept behind vehicles is that it removes the need for groups to need warriors AND clerics AND to some degree mages. With the fewer players on… the ingrediants that make groups are getting harder to find… it’s not always tanks in shortage…
For a short time, two clerics could group, on a vehicle that gives them ac… Two warriors could group on a dinosaur that gives them a little blast power.
[b:115wxzio]The vehicles could be limited to class, area’s, size in so many ways, in order to not unbalance the game[/b:115wxzio], but remove that need for all the ingrediants that are required to make a group… work.
The best groups I have been in, the memorable ones… have all been because of temp rewards… I’ll always remember the first eq pop on sloth, and the holy handgrenade group from new years. Everyone wants to group then! It brings everyone together and it’s fun and rewarding, even if it’s only temp. It just makes grouping that little bit extra fun and interesting than chop.
Some of the best experiences I’ve had grouping have been in times where a group was running hard on the last fumes of mana, where everyone’s, including the low level character’s, healing (or blasting, or what have you) counted.
I’m not sure how it could be implemented, but at the moment there’s little real risk for a group to do anything. If you run out of mana on primary healers or loose a couple of people from half way down the prot chain, you just staff and try again. If it was less possible to control the exact circumstances of a fight (or even a run) after it was started, it could bring back the necessity of real group coordination.
Imagine being trapped deep inside Moria/MH/Dweb etc. with low mana and mobs that actively attempt to attack you rather than just stand around waiting for someone to come to them, and needing to fight and sneak your way back to the surface. You would need everyone paying attention and using their abilities.
I guess what I’m describing in this post would involve significant risk compared to current grouping, but balancing a leader that knew when to quit, with group members that weren’t too bored to watch what was happening would mitigate it.
It seems like the way to make a group interesting for everyone is to make everyone’s contribution important, and the obvious consequence of an important contribution not taking place is something going wrong (hence the need for everyone to pay attention, if this is making sense).
Probably an unworkable idea on levels I’m not seeing at this time of night, but maybe not :)
I think that would be exciting too…! But I really hate dying :cry: I mean really hate dying…
XP loss is partly why I don’t do epic’s, don’t just have fun exploring… prefer to run solo (Some people will get you killed!), I hate trusting my weak butt in the hands of a group with botter’s and afkers. Death teaches you things, but in sloth you get penalized for those lessons.
I slept at titanic polar bear today, didn’t know better, and then that stupid snake shocked me… I just wanted to quit again… I guess every player is different, and the good ones tend to die a lot… I don’t think I’ll be one of them.
Kind wish I could not suffer xp loss for a week, and just explore and learn things. It would certainly help my confidence in my playing ability.
Things were also exciting when psteal was ingame. When there aren’t groups or group that are closed, solo’ing can, at time, be boring/frustrating. However, pthievery always seemed to keep people on their toes and gave
the soloers and groups alike something to keep their eye out for.
Ouch, didn’t know you shocked at the bear, sorry I was afk or I would have gotten you.
When you find a group of players you can utterly trust, and run small groups with (probably if/when you join a clan), being able to rely on them can make for some fun times.
On the not loosing xp thing, getting a good collection of icq numbers is really all you need, unless you die a spectacular amount of times and start shocking out of sheer probability.
And I really don’t mean to undermine your point, but if you enjoy exploring and soloing, you can always gain far more xp than you’re ever going to loose by running some quick 2-3 man lyme, xp shouldn’t deny you something good that you can get out of the game.
Psteal was a good way to get some pvp going, pitty you guys were always so weak :twisted:
On a side note, a tourney, or even just exploring the minefield of making some kind of small reward for using the arena that isn’t ludicrously exploitable could inject some fun, and you sure can’t bot while something that isn’t being controlled by Sloth’s code tries to kill you.
Yes I realize Sloth isn’t a pkill mud, and I would never suggest turning it into one, but it’s not like we haven’t been enjoying fighting each other on friendly terms for quite some time.
Things were also exciting when psteal was ingame. When there aren’t groups or group that are closed, solo’ing can, at time, be boring/frustrating. However, pthievery always seemed to keep people on their toes and gave
the soloers and groups alike something to keep their eye out for.[/quote:28q3i19t]
That disgusts me. You like pthiefing because you have everything to gain and nothing to loose… and you think the misery of other’s is a good time… you can not get any lower.
And Ryn, don’t sweat it, the snake mob in dark chasm devours your corpse causing you to shock instantly, there was nothing u could do. No chance to raise…
imho, a tiny fraction of people don’t like to get into a group due to the lag coded into actions such as bash, trip, RESCUE and several others actions i know i have forgotten to list or simply don’t know because i mainly play an oldskewl wa prime. ppl group to gain xps and perhaps eq, drachma, honor - whatever the main purpose of the group is - not to die/shock/corpse/lose lev or xp because the tank is lagged. when a groupie is getting attacked and sings for a rescue, there should not be a bloody lag that winds up getting groupie dead instead of actually rescued! yes i know we have second wind but second wind should work for when you are running and run out of moves instead of counteracting the lag coded into what are supposed to be beneficial actions. honestly i wish there were some other checks and balances to some things rather than the worn and WAY overused lag. and yeah, my thoughts are all over the page and slightly off topic, so flame me if ya will, pick me apart - whatever, but i am throwing my two cents out there as food for thought - or at least spam to take up space on this thread.
“hard to see, the dark side is” – yoda –> star wars the phantom menace
I would hope that my groups are exciting and hard to bot in. I don’t let ppl hog mana and I try to pay attention to whos blasting/debuffing. I also run the group until all the mana is gone. So if your sitting on mana you cause players to die. Then I let them tongue-lash you for you being a scrub. The free market usually works itself out, even in sloth. If you bot and piss a bunch of ppl off you will get a reputation and not be welcome to join. I have several ideas about getting more small vk type groups running and I am going to talk with a few imms about implementing them.
One of the concerns about groups I routinely hear is botting and ’there’s nothing for me to do’. I gotta say, that’s bunch of horsepucky. There isn’t a classo out there that can’t kick, bash, blast, sing, heal, or whatever. On Every mob. Just because it isn’t the most damaging thing you can do, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. Hell, I’ve kicked Tiamat plenty of times and I’ve got bard 4 with 16 str!
Another solution is to have smaller groups. I’m not against everyone on the mud piling into MH or dmount, I think it’s fun. But if it bugs you that some ppls aren’t pulling their weight - the leader should be able to group people they want to and eject others that they don’t want. This is something i found astounding about Sloth when I came. I fol someone and automatically I am grouped - no questions asked!
It would really be no headache at all to code a command where the person being followed has to group each member individually. They would also be given the ability to ungroup a member. It also makes grouping around lurkers or MIA ppls much easier.
There are several things I have noticed that makes grouping a big pain. If people just worked harder at helping the group, they’d realize they’d get xp two or three times faster. I once did an example with a group, after everyone was basically botting… I told everyone to blast and pay attention and the mob died twice as fast.
People have to realize that evey little bit of blasting helps. If we have 10 people in the group at full mana for an hour and only 1 or 2 people are healing… then those people need to blast, destructions or dispel evil, whatever, they need to blast. I was killing dragon mountain with a HUGE group and it was taking forever to kill the black dragons. We weren’t dying, far from it, we had thousands of mana of people that didn’t have mage… they were necro/druid/clerics who were just waiting to heal. Well sometimes you gotta just blast.. blast out and the mob will die twice as fast. Have druids shapeshift, necros cast destruction, dispel evil, do whatever you can to hurt the mob. It helps. There has to be a balance to healing you need and blasting you need.
Also, when people join groups and do nothing, you have to yell at them to enter portals 100 times… it’s no wonder no one feels like leading. I know people like to not pay attention, to watch tv or read stuff in another window. That’s cool, I do that from time to time. But you have to pay attention as much as possible… there has got to be a line between being distracted for a second and not paying attention for a whole minute or more. (this is not botting, this is people joining and just not paying attention.. I call em scabs- don’t be a scab)
As far as tanking goes, I never wanted to play a tank all the time. I only made Toxis to tank on days when we needed a tank.. but it just seems you can’t get halfway decent tank now. I feel stuck in Toxis just for the mud’s sake, I guess that’s wrong thinking on my part but… is that a problem with warriors? Or is that because we can’t group without a tank? I mean, what is the problem and how can we compensate for it?
People feel we can’t have a tank unless they’re -11, I think that’s just far from the truth. I see no reason why a -9 or -10 can’t tank mh and dmount, no reason… everyone flocks to those groups anyway so there is plenty of healing… I just very rarely see a halfway decent tank on that wants to group. Either they’re not on or they’re busy and don’t want to tank for xp.
[pri sec ter qua] Players
[ Wizard ] Lis Battle Mage [DoW]
[ Hierarch ] Doc wa
[ Arch-Lich ] Adagio please vote
[ Grand Druid ] Stryx [DoW]
[ Juggernaut ] Rodek Lord Rockarm [Dow]
[ Harvester ] Elwin <Knights>
[ Diabolist ] Zero ..
[ Burglar ] Cizin [[[CSK]]]
[ Bandit ] Restive … Who moved my cheese?!?
[40t 40m 40c 38d] Kokoro [[[CSK]]] now hates Atlas
[40c 40d 40n 35b] Nakita —
[40n 40d 38m 22b] Kraz Loves dead trees and a Frostbolt SB
[40b 40m 37c 23o] Afea .
[40c 38m 22t 15w] Java *
[36o 30c 23m 16d] Mangrove .
[20m 20d 20c 19n] Eta .
[11o 4w 0m 0c] Vander :)
[ 5w 1t 1n 1c] Nimski the Untitled
I asked Rodek if he was there and wanted to tank but he was afk. I guess Nimski is batter up. :) Now I’m joking, and it’s only 3pm eastern so not many people are on but you can see the ratio to non casters/casters. I bet we could get Afea to tank :)
-Toxis
Just thinking from Brad’s post…it would be nice if a mob could equally focus on fighting more than one or two people. A group of casters running without prots and all taking a hit or two a round would be pretty fun, and you can be sure people aren’t going to bot when they’re actively getting beat up.
Obviously it would still be more efficient to have a tank so everyone wasn’t using potential blasting mana healing themselves (I’m figuring most casters don’t run enough ac to get more than a few misses against good group mobs), but it would at least be more feasible to run tankless.
I know most changes based on “realism” come off pretty weird, but it would also get rid of the interesting mental image of 10 people standing in single file to fight.
Also:
People feel we can’t have a tank unless they’re -11, I think that’s just far from the truth. I see no reason why a -9 or -10 can’t tank mh and dmount, no reason…[/quote:1uqw939w]
Exactly.
Jezer wrote:[quote:br57c6r7]That disgusts me. You like pthiefing because you have everything to gain and nothing to loose… and you think the misery of other’s is a good time… you can not get any lower. [/quote:br57c6r7]
Whoa there, kinda harsh aren’t you? Who said misery of other’s is a good time. I could settle that flagged pthieves couldnt rent. That way they “have” to stay ingame and run around. They could hang out in peace rooms as long as they aren’t boarded between “jaunts”. Could also be flagged that upon a successful psteal they can’t drop for “x” amount of time or hide in peaceroom. I think part of this is already coded. I don’t care if psteal goes back in or not, it’s just the pvp for something different. We don’t have enough off-port tourneys, so fault me.
it’s just the pvp for something different. We don’t have enough off-port tourneys, so fault me.[/quote:sm8zpbdf]
Dear God. I agree with something Tap said.
I still think more has to be done to remove the group bias to warriors and clerics.
It just seems wrong that the cleric class is built in such a way 90% of the players feel obliged to choose it because of the practicality of mana, restores, sanct and refreshing.
Likewise warriors have skills that make them by far and above the best tanks. Without these two factors, why should any one want to risk losing xp in a group?
I want to see a -9 bard, -4 mage, -5 druid, and a bunch of other non warrior and cleric classes run MH… we talk about like it’s a practical doable solution… but realistically how much could they kill?
I’ve done this kind of grouping in a 4-5 man group with Bro in westwood. It sucks, you kill 5 mobs, you get bad xp and you have to regen. In Westwood! Not even MH!
I’ve also 2 maned in dark dreams with Assirian as a -10 cleric tank. Nothing against Assirian, but I still have to heal him way too much. I dare you’s, take a small -9 non warrior tanking grouping somewhere… with 4 others… tell me where you can get good xp without regenning every 4 mobs.
Without clerics and warriors, groups are far too impractical, and 2 man in an xp area will almost always be better xp.
6-8 Man Group vs Tiamat
Tank call goes out… finally get one, minutes pass, smallbies join group, in the waiting the afkers get there drinks and aren’t back in time. We get two healo. We loose 30 seconds screaming at someone to enter portal. Someone’s didn’t have fly up they plummet and die. 2 mins passes, 2 people die because of prot chain and rescue lags… 6mill xp…
Solo vs Prongs
30 seconds passes… 6mill xp
Why Group unless there are good warriors and clerics? I for one don’t even bother. I’ve been in small groups, just trying to support someone like Bro. You can tell what everyone in the group is thinking… this isn’t working, this xp is slow, but we can’t take anything else though… They last 20mins, some person makes an excuse so no ones feelings get hurt and we all split up. The closest I’ve ever been to getting good xp and being in a mid sized small group was the old castle days. It’s either solo, 2man stab or large group these days, no in betweens.
Toxis wrote: I bet we could get Afea to tank :) -Toxis
Heheh….
well whatever it takes, in full charisma i am getting close to my goal, i still need the rings from lyme, the boots from tower’s, the shield from magic, dagger of dreams and eventually lorehelm, other then that i have enough to get masterpiece these days. in that set with stone i think i have -1.0
reg/non charisma i have -6.3 or 4
I ran ogre caverns solo the other night, full charisma without sanc and yeah it was an experience but i managed to kill some ogres and the hangman tree along with fish.birds solo with hardly any ac and half the time i forget to sanc… because i do not run sanc when i solo i need the mana for songs, so no sanc no ac and i still did it.
Whenever you need a tank i will try it, even if i die 1001 horrible deaths at least i can say i have tanked!
This just in: The BH Hearald:
Bards are the new tanks
Red is the new black
Whining is at an all time high!
botters find themselves at the gates or dead and wonder why!
Afea
Another small idea, thanks to Afea…
What if bard’s could sing a song to enhance the mana regen of a group… just maybe druids, who don’t really have group skills could sustain shift in groups longer. That would be cool!
Toxis has always encouraged druids to shift in his groups, I’m not sure why at one stage it seemed frowned upon by other leaders. It would be kind of cool to actually be a druid in a group… instead of 2.cleric or 2.mage. :)
PS I apologise if some of my posts sounds whiny… its not my intent. I am trying to come up with ideas… as stupid or as good as they may be.
Nervous xp rocks, and a group of shifted druids chops pretty fast.
I guess there’s non-caster classes for chop damage though, so it probably often seems to make more sense to use a druid as a healer/blaster.
But it would be fun to get to shift in groups sometimes.
Haha Ryn, I love it how diplomatic you are… no one is ever wrong, and no one is really right, but they all make good points! :twisted: That’s an awesome quality!
Hehe, thanks :)
Another small idea, thanks to Afea…
What if bard’s could sing a song to enhance the mana regen of a group… [/quote:s0nie42b]
we do, you just have to be sleeping to get the full effect of it, dreams of the castle… if you can fight in your dreams….
Heh, Regening mana while I’m sleeping shifted… is something I try and keep to a minimum… :wink:
I do occasionally fight in my dreams, my incident with the polar bear springs to mind! :)
But an upright awake version of dreams was what I meant.
Would a song like that lead to more bard/druid groups? I’d be keen.
I’m having trouble believing this is even a topic.
The BH Castle was a really cool place for a long time. The xp was a bit high for the effort, but it was a good place to train newbie leaders. Its also aligned good, which removed rabbits and made coordination within the group slightly more important. Akasha did a pretty good job mixing up their skills and it took a bit of know how to run it well. Then it was changed and became a decoration.
Warriors were the flavor of the year once the Warrior/Monk combo came into full swing. Everyone made some version of a killer tank and they were plentiful. Then those same people realized all you need is a whiner and a rescue script and tanking simply couldn’t be any more boring. The main reason I preferred to lead while tanking is so I didn’t fall asleep.
Another annoying factor with smallish groups is the continents. If you want to run 2 or 3 man, MH Valley is nice. If you want to run 3 or 4, Theris. If you want to run 5, BH Castle and upper Cano. If you want to run 6 or 7, MH Caverns and lower Cano. If you want to run 8 or 9, Dmount, Lair and Sa. If you want to run 10+, you’re back on SS and in the Dweb. So, if you want to run a group of varying size you either need fargate or There and Back. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had someone join or leave a group and I’ve instantly wished I was on another continent.
Clerics are nice, I know lots of really good ones. I’ve improvised them on many occasions though. Rynquald, Quake and Cipha are some of the best clerics going. Ask anyone.
Valk is a horrible place. You can 2-man everything. Autumnal is vaguely interesting. Ersa and Roach are the only real group xp. Every Valk group I’ve ever run has started with LEAVING Valk. Running Sakura and Ruins of the High Tower was much, much better. AH is a great place for newbies but no true newbie could ever figure out how to get to where the xp is.
Hm… This isn’t where I parked my car…
Bit! :shock:
Are you still playing! Good to see you posting on the board again, your posts are always full of great teaching information. I’ve missed them!
I’m eager to try Theris in a 3-4man now. That is stuff I just had no idea about.
Epic’s has changed things a bit, also fewer new players, so it’s why the topic has come up. Nothing is dire wrong or anything, it’s just a case of making things a little better, especially for <2x40’s when it comes to grouping I think is Jake’s intention.
Medios reckon’s he has some good ideas to help… would u post them Mike?
Running 2x40 groups is rough because of Lyme. All the Tards get sucked away and putting something together with what’s left is kinda hard. The castle was a nice place to hang out during those times for a while, but once Geber and Vicar got changed into Golden Gloves champs, that came to an end pretty quick.
Best alternatives are to get a -9 tank and run MH Valley 2 or 3 man. Or maybe some of upper Cano. If I remember, I would try to run Theris during those times since you could get by with -9, curse and blind. If you have someone that can lead with deathgrip, that helps a bit too. Miss the blind though and the group is charcoal. The citizens cast firewind twice a round.
I haven’t played for a little over a year. Mind is a bit rusty.
Since you don’t play here much now, have any equipment you might want to part with by donating?
You want to make more groups happen?
Give leaders more xp, say extra 10% xp for every group member present for groups over 4 chars.
You want to stop botting?
Give all doors and portals a random element
Get more mobs to toss.
You want to make groups more effective?
Automate the prot chain
Let shifts protect
You want to make tanks more effective?
remove rescue lag
You want to have groups that don’t need warriors to tank without undermining the warriors class?
Give bards a -1ac song costing similar to moon aura, perhaps we could call it sun aura? Maybe it could affect just one char or the group I’ll leave that up to you.
You want non clerics and non warrirors to have a job in group?
well thieves stab, bards sing, mages blast, so give necros a low power pet that dosen’t steal group xp, let druids protect while shifted, monks I’ve no idea never played monk.
You want more xp groups to happen?
introduce an exchange rate for xp to drachma … hmm not even sure about this one myself.
You want to remove cross continental problem?
Introduce a group only staff (say only 10 person group or above costing 100k) that can fargate a group.
You want more groups on VK?
Introduce an area on vk that has some elite newbie only or temp eq but has bigger mobs with decent xp.
Put more essential forges on vk (like jjd)
Other ideas?
Group stab option allows a secondary thief in group to add a single stab to the main stabbers … watch groups run with 10 thief primes.
Give necros pets that do something other than hit stuff …. such as stand in front of you and add -1ac, even capped at -10 this might be useful, or hit ether mobs, or sing songs to the other pets.
Give cleric containing chars a different supp to rabbit that makes them make a choice … get heals or get mana regen or something.
Make necro pets scale like cleric supps so warrior primes can’t solo desert anymore with rabbit and swordwraiths so they need groups to get xp.
Slam anyone that suggests bringing ptheft back … it brought untolled misery upset and bad feeling to sloth. Fine if you’re on for hours and can spend the time to get your elite eq back, (well no I’d still argue it hurt the mud even then) not so good when your crystal helm gets stolen as you log on for 10 mins to check your eq change scripts.
Give Jezer a medal for the sudden upsurge of posts.
Seriously consider asking more regular players to have an input into major structural changes such as honor before introducing them. I think honor only helps 5x40s great give them a reward and something to do, but not at the expense of 90% all xp groups.
Let crier keep you logged in long enough to finish a post.
Hmm what else … take my soapbox off me before I can post again … many more ideas but will post them later.
- the leader should be able to group people they want to and eject others that they don’t want. This is something i found astounding about Sloth when I came. I fol someone and automatically I am grouped - no questions asked!
It would really be no headache at all to code a command where the person being followed has to group each member individually. They would also be given the ability to ungroup a member. It also makes grouping around lurkers or MIA ppls much easier.[/quote:3lm4v31t]
we currently do have such commands in place: glock to lock group to prevent new followees, gunlock to allow more joiners, ungroup
“he’s unconscious, larry. he’s tied to a post” –ed –> identity
Thanks, FB, I wasn’t aware of the ungroup command and will review the remaining help files.
Nice post Thraxas.
wow, so much letters.. :)
As for me, we have few groups mostly becouse of lack of time and inappropriate people’s mood.
And, imho, sloth is not grouporiented.. (since we have necros 8-)
U forgot Thiefs too. They don’t get along with anyone!
U forgot Thiefs too. They don’t get along with anyone![/quote:iufz6vl9]
I’ve noticed a little bit more of an upsurge in pthief sympathy on this board of late… not just tap… but in subtle ways…
Every new difficulty in sloth being overcome is caused by lack of player abilities because pthiefing was taken out… :roll:
There is talk of the “Good Old Days” when pthief players were “Old School” which somehow makes them nice little forgivable angels… and they were just so good and darling that everyone respected the little rascals… :roll:
Slam them every time! :twisted: Don’t give up slamming them! Someday some immortal just might believe there rubbish if we don’t!
Nice post Thraxas.[/quote:39c8y91u]
Thanks, I’m surprised there haven’t been loads more serious suggestions though, I thought you’d all be bursting with ideas.
Are we still looking for ideas for grouping? Probably not but here goes anyway.
To manage botting / afking in groups:
In my opinion it isn’t that people bot or afk in groups that is the problem, everyone needs an afk from time to time, sometimes this is unexpected and sometimes no notice can be given; babies do cry, phones and doorbells ring, partners do come over and ask inane questions and demand some attention.
The current solution to such situations is to either:
Bot, in which case the habit of botting grows: if its ok for 2 mins, why not 5 mins or 10 or the whole group while you watch the latest episode of Lost.
Recall, which disrupts the group, breaks the prot chain and would make groups unmanagable if everyone recalled for every afk.
No the problem to my mind is that when these things happen you have no good and legal way to say you are afk then afk without disrupting the flow of the group and risking death.
Perhaps a solution would be the introduction of an afk status. This would mean:
You gained no xp, loots or coins.
You stayed with the leader of the group through all portals, doors etc.
You didn’t break the prot chain.
You could perform no actions either by script or manually.
You could take no part in fights.
You’re regen was zeroed.
If someone in group could declare themselves legally afk in such a way or the leader could declare those they believed to be botting afk in such a way then groups could run without the worry of disruption for the short breaks that are sometimes necessary particularly in the 5 hour straight running no regen groups.
No the problem to my mind is that when these things happen you have no good and legal way to say you are afk then afk without disrupting the flow of the group and risking death.[/quote:1q8yfjdk]
You can say I need to go afk, type refollow, turn lurking on and recall.
If others players aren’t botting they will be able to fix prot over you.
Perhaps a solution would be the introduction of an afk status. This would mean:
You gained no xp, loots or coins.
You stayed with the leader of the group through all portals, doors etc.
You didn’t break the prot chain.
You could perform no actions either by script or manually.
You could take no part in fights.
You’re regen was zeroed.[/quote:1q8yfjdk]
why do bot if you get no xp for it? :twisted:
you can push bot through the portals and most of us yet have good scripts for entering archway right after tank or leader
when i move newcomer beneath the bot he don’t fix prot - that’s the problem.
–
if your regen are zeroed you will run out of moves, lost and break the prot chain anyway.
Vixn aka Edd
sojme stuff [/quote:rvn0rzgz]
I think you’re missing my point, or I’m not explaining it well perhaps.
Illegal botting happens now, I was trying to find an easier way to legally deal with some of the problems that cause illegal botting and allow a legal botting status that dosen’t hurt the group dosen’t put your char in danger and dosen’t benefit you and dosen’t put you in a position where you feel it necessary to break rules just to take a pee.
I know I don’t have all the answers, and I can find more flaws in my last post than you have so far posted, but its an idea, a suggestion and there would be answers to all the issues if there was apetite among the imms to develop in this way.
LOL back in the day we had imms and they watched things with severity
turned way up, they compared IP addresses, they checked for botters.
they checked for cheaters in the immortal realm as well….what happened?
Even Talo/Ulrich/Cynix can get away with multiplaying REPEATEDLY.
I got wiped for getting my corpse with a different character once…
I almost think that Wilde and Nia and Hectordark made it a little more
interesting. I would be willing to bet that I could get away with levelling a
40 40 with a 40 tard on lyme or with sneaking specs off. I’m curious why the situation has degraded to the point where once a month there is an
all-inclusive botting/grouping thread.
if you dont like botters, kick them out or pkill them.
and then…DON’T LET THEM IN AGAIN TOMORROW.
just my 2 cents you whining pussies,
Aaron
Can’t argue with that. If you let it happen in a group (as leader), then don’t whine about it. Simple. Kick their a55es! You can do it!
Unfortunately until the playerbase increases a bit, we may be stuck with having to take the law into our own hands…. muahahaha
AFAIK it is ok to do your own CR, just so long as it’s a corpse so you aren’t actually logged in with both chars simultaneously.
I would be willing to bet that I could get away with levelling a
40 40 with a 40 tard on lyme.[/quote:32oyegp4]
I bet ya 20 bucks. Course you’d be reported, win or lose.
I’m curious why the situation has degraded to the point where once a month there is an all-inclusive botting/grouping thread.[/quote:32oyegp4]
Problems are never as extreme as they appear on the crier. It just gives us something to talk about and get indignant about once in a while. What make me curious is why you read it, and get indignant also, even tho you’re not playing atm.
Problems are never as extreme as they appear on the crier. It just gives us something to talk about and get indignant about once in a while.[/quote:uw8nta1h]
That’s so true! It’s human to explode your problems bigger than what they are to others… and talking about it often “resets” that build up in anxiety.
Some people bottle there frustrations and vent massively once in a while, others don’t like to talk about because they think it shows weakness. Some don’t care to much about being seen as weak. Everyone is different.
I enjoy 13’s posts, there is normally a “story telling” aspect about them that seems to grab my attention. It’s always a good read.
I’ve heard bits and piece’s about Hectordick and Nia, seems most people didn’t like them much, or at least viewed them as harsh. But I bet you old tards gave as good as you got! :twisted:
Jism wrote:
[quote:1tfppmrk]
I’ve noticed a little bit more of an upsurge in pthief sympathy on this board of late… not just tap… but in subtle ways…
Every new difficulty in sloth being overcome is caused by lack of player abilities because pthiefing was taken out…[/quote:1tfppmrk]
So you support pthieving?
[quote:1tfppmrk]Slam them every time! Twisted Evil Don’t give up slamming them![/quote:1tfppmrk]
So you don’t support pthieving?
[quote:1tfppmrk]I enjoy 13’s posts, there is normally a “story telling” aspect about them that seems to grab my attention[/quote:1tfppmrk]
You support being grabbed by 13?
[quote:1tfppmrk] But I bet you old tards gave as good as you got![/quote:1tfppmrk]
TMI
8)
I DO NOT support pthiefing…
But just because people have or are pthief’s doesn’t mean I hate them with everything within me.
I try to find things about people that I like, even though they might really annoy me from time to time.
With poolp right, I killed him as often as I could, but I never “abused” him like some other players did… Same thing with Yasik, he often annoys me, but I choose not to harbor resentment, and some days, he is actually even good…! For example, when I hit tard, he offered to log on a newbie who was holding and aegis book, which I accepted.
It’s about walking a fine line between respect for human beings, and yet not supporting what the human beings are doing…
Your a sly one Tap, clever at twisting facts.. your dangerous.
I DO NOT support pthiefing…
But just because people have or are pthief’s doesn’t mean I hate them with everything within me.
I try to find things about people that I like, even though they might really annoy me from time to time.[/quote:2i6glo2v]
I generally hate pthieving in general because the way the mud works is such that it dispraportionately targetted players with little experience and offered little in the way of extra fun for the mud. This generally either attracted rather worthless cretins who’s idea of fun was egging my house or driving away new players that just had their first jjd stolen.
I don’t get an extra rush out of parking my car in the lot where my window has a chance of getting smashed in, and were I to catch the vandal I’d actually have to deal with him. Righteous vengence may look apetizing on the menu, but savoring its flavor leaves an anticlimactic boquet of dissapointment.
I generally hate pthieving in general because the way the mud works is such that it dispraportionately targetted players with little experience and offered little in the way of extra fun for the mud. This generally either attracted rather worthless cretins who’s idea of fun was egging my house or driving away new players that just had their first jjd stolen.
I don’t get an extra rush out of parking my car in the lot where my window has a chance of getting smashed in, and were I to catch the vandal I’d actually have to deal with him. Righteous vengence may look apetizing on the menu, but savoring its flavor leaves an anticlimactic boquet of dissapointment.[/quote:1gza6h8i]
You crack me up Zukt! +1 to Vocabulary!
I’ve been trying to think on this subject, about why it’s hard to find a good tank…
It seems hard to find a good -9 tank with over 900 hp with a good link with good scripts. You’d think it’d be easy, but a lot of people do not play tanks. If they do play tanks, they don’t group. Lately the only tanks I’ve seen on often that run xp are Toxis and Rodek.
Things I hate about tanking: You are at the mercy of the group and a lot of people aren’t top notch healers, you can’t flee and come back to blind or anything, you can’t do a lot to lag your whiner especially in hard hitting mobs, your mana regen is 25 per tick standing 41 sleeping (and this is at 40 avatar with 17 wisdom), you have to web 95% of the time and that lags whiner at start of fight so be careful…
Things I like about tanking: It sure can be exciting at times heh, riposte was a great idea because it doesn’t lag you and you feel like you’re doing damage, being able to defy at the right time is awesome, 1222 hp -12 ac is awesome even though it takes 5 rounds to kill a splork mob, point xp offlyme rocks, being the only one alive while rest of the wusies in the group are dyin hehe…
Do we need more hp eq for lower level warriors with perhaps minus damage and mana? Do we need to make it so more people can tank instead of just warriors? Just looking for some reasons why more people don’t play tank characters except to do epics. :P
-Tox
I leike teh TANKINGZ job
Most of the larger tanks like urself over shadow the little ones.
Bomb and Sa currently comes to mind.
I’ve also seen Zukt, Rub, Rodek and Bombard tank some exp groups.
Since yesterday in our little exp group, the better questions are … Where r
teh Monks!!! I only see myself and Lugnutz as higher monks. Still most
ppl doesn’t know that Monk “gripping” in groups rock, since they can help
reduce a mob’s chance on hitting the tank. This to me is one hell of a bonus!
We need more LOVE for Monks!
P.S. Reduce the Grip Lag Rescue!!! (Akasha :))
Sounds interesting Leaf, I’ll give that a try sometime soon. I died at skeletal night in Drakuun Forest. I think I was fumbling with the gate when he hit me for a surprise 700hp round when I was in a shift eq mode. Ouch!
I am REALLY looking forward to exploring… which brings me to a question, how do I stay alive exploring? I know I can ferret, I can have fly, waterbreath and a spell shield up… if I have those 4 things, is there still ways I could die exploring? Which area’s have those dangers on AH?
You’ll run across the odd mob that doesn’t like ferrets, the only two on AH that i can think of atm are the dog (or hellhound or whatever) in Sheol and Ryzen in Mercurial. Ryzen won’t actually attack, but you’ll get his death proc.
You could also possibly die if you run out of mvs at something dangerous and have to unshift to refresh or recall, but that’s not normally a problem if you carry scrolls.
I know where the notorious monk is.
=
Since yesterday in our little exp group, the better questions are … Where r
teh Monks!!! ….. [/quote:fpd87e7x]
Well I dunno how many ppl are gonna like hearing this, but Ive just found out about a couple upcoming changes at my job that will free up alot of time for me, so I may be dusting Banedon off and coming back sometime soon
Well Banedon, hopefully you will get more time to mud due to “good”
changes at your job and not bad ones.
Also I was addressing the fact that we do have tanks on Sloth. I would say
we have more Ma/Dr because they can solo big mobs all by themselves.
Do a Who, and u will see the number of class are Ma>Th>Ne>Wa>Cl>Ba>Dr>Mo
I’ve been trying to think on this subject, about why it’s hard to find a good tank…
It seems hard to find a good -9 tank with over 900 hp with a good link with good scripts. You’d think it’d be easy, but a lot of people do not play tanks. If they do play tanks, they don’t group. Lately the only tanks I’ve seen on often that run xp are Toxis and Rodek.
-Tox[/quote:d22x5tnc]
you know, I dont tank all that often because I’m not on for very long (usually 1 or 2 runs max) and, all you guys want is a -11 tank but since I solo so much and do so in -10, I keep my -11 gear in my vault unless I really need it (that and at some point I broke my -11 eq change and havent gotten around to fixing it).
My newbie tank (thump) only runs -9 and 17 con at a whopping 786hp (or something like that) and, in general, no one wants to run with a -9 tank anyway (almost none like a -10 anymore either). I dont see -10 in his immediate future since I’m not on that much, I tend to not bother with autoquests or forges as much as I should and looking at the eq thats out there, I just dont see -10 (current eq plus a cuirass only puts me at -9.7, add holy sceptre and it’s -9.9 but the amount I play I’m a long way away from getting a cuirass).
Oh, and I dont auto-rescue on double whiff (and for all I know, all my other rescue triggers (besides rescuing on successful stab) are screwed)
Just got caught up on this thread. Lots of great discussion - and many topics related (but not to the root) of my concern at the time. The concern was: “Why is off-lyme/non-epic grouping so boring”.
When I originally posed this question, it seemed like the groups only needed debuffs at the start, 1 tank and 1 healer. That dynamic is way different in the groups I’ve watched lately.
The bot issue is so very related - but I think the group dynamic was partly to blame for some of the real botting.
I think the weaken bug (where it incorrectly removed 13 strength points on mobs - but worked right on players) had a pretty big impact on this whole debate.
Debuffs could be made better to improve group play.
Most of the newbies I have started over the years were pretty useless in groups (no comments about my general uselessness please). The one thing most of my newbies could do was hit an occasional blind or curse (on a demon) or a weaken.
The last newbie I started, Switcher has been useless for blinds in groups. I don’t know if it was something about druids or that blinds were made harder to get, but a regular blind spell never happened in groups. With acid and 2x40 he finally is getting some blinds.
So here is my suggestion, make debuffs easier for newbies to hit in groups, make then really worthwhile, and make them much shorter lasting. This would give newbies something worthwhile to do in groups and any longish fight means that the mob needs a second or even a third round of debuffs. This would be an excellent reason not to bot.
I would not suggest changing the system for non-grouped debuffs.
That wouldn’t be a great idea Jag. Tanks need blinds/weaken to stick and
for the full amount 1-2 ticks (acid/blind). If the time was shorten to .5/1
ticks then think about how many times a person would need to debuff the
mob while the tank is getting hit even harder?! This would mean the tank
needs more heals, so more mana is burned.
Jake, this would all be resolved if Monk’s rescue lag grip is fixed :P
speaking of rescue lag
there should be some kinda prime skill for avatar warriors similar to thieves sleight of hand that would allow them to have a chance of a ‘fast rescue’.
I usually don’t run in groups because you can get more xp 2man and frankly, groups are usually pretty lame, but i’ve been stabbing for some biggish ones lately, and i have to say, between rescue lag and apply lag, you really can’t do a damn thing. I realize that a 100% fast rescue would probably create some balance problems, but if it’s made a skill with an 85% max and wa-prime only, would make thieves at least (and presumably monks) that much more grateful to have a ‘real’ warrior tanking (and might encourage some of us reluctant types to run in groups more often if we know we’ll actually get to chat a little instead of being perma-lagged)
Lately debuffs have become so hard to stick that I have almost given up on them. In my desert groups it seems much smarter to have everyone blast their biggest dmg and kill the mob fast than to try for 10 rounds to blind it. I don’t know what was changed but I rarely hit any debuffs anymore. I notice necromancy attuned people have a pretty good chance but what good is that for newer players. Recently I have just been using fog and damnation and stop wasting my time with the rest. I ran with a bh xp group and one of the main problems is a lack of mid level areas. You either need a small group or decent group with a big tank.
As far as rescue lag is concerned, how does a warrior stepping in front of you and a monster slow down your casting abilities? How about a warrior prime skill like taunt that makes the mob engage the warrior. Shrug just some ideas.
Peace
Not sure if it has been fixed.
However Tank rescue = Lag
Thief Stab = Lag
Monk Grip = Lag
In a group when a thief stab, and tank rescue. The thief gets the lag from
the rescue only. Currently (unless fixed) when a monk grip and a tank
rescue it adds the grip + rescue = 2x lag. My monk has been rescued, and
I just sat there watching 3-4 rounds go by before I can cast anything.
On the debuff question. Chances of getting them to stick hasn’t changed since I’ve been back from a code perspective.. I’ve not watched desert groups lately, but it doesn’t seem to be too bad off of lyme.
Taunt is an interesting idea, we’re talking about that now.
Lately debuffs have become so hard to stick that I have almost given up on them. In my desert groups it seems much smarter to have everyone blast their biggest dmg and kill the mob fast than to try for 10 rounds to blind it. I don’t know what was changed but I rarely hit any debuffs anymore. I notice necromancy attuned people have a pretty good chance but what good is that for newer players. Recently I have just been using fog and damnation and stop wasting my time with the rest. I ran with a bh xp group and one of the main problems is a lack of mid level areas. You either need a small group or decent group with a big tank.
As far as rescue lag is concerned, how does a warrior stepping in front of you and a monster slow down your casting abilities? How about a warrior prime skill like taunt that makes the mob engage the warrior. Shrug just some ideas.
Peace[/quote:6rmoxeri]
wtf….alth stabbing for groups?
…..damn what’s going on here??
It’s hard for me to believe that mobs saves against blind and weaken weren’t changed somehow about six months ago. Seems harder to land debuffs. Also remember that someone tinkered with blind duration and with masterful acid. It really seems that the success rate was altered also.
Weaken no longer inflicting a -1 to hit is a pretty big nerf. ouch.
Imho one approach would be to increase the mobs’ base hit rolls, but increase the players ability to debuff. Perhaps mob saving throws at mob levels 40+ could be looked at/reduced. Weaken could be restored to function as it did before, with a full 1 point hit reduction.
Weaken inflicted more than a -1 to hit was the issue. going from 18/100 to 15 was bigger than blind.
………
I gave up on weaken too. Its cool if my demilich casts it but I’m tired of wasting 5 rounds for no benefit. Pretty soon well be back to stab blast on everything.
I also think that its a bit unfair that necro’s juju steals exp from group if it kills the mob, its the prime necromancer’s power and alienates us from everyone else and makes necros ungroupworthy.
I gave up on weaken too. Its cool if my demilich casts it but
I’m tired of wasting 5 rounds for no benefit. Pretty soon well be back to
stab blast on everything.[/quote:1lhau97t]
You’re right, it wasn’t working, thanks to Krom for tracking this down. The
biggest issue here is that mobs strength was pretty hosed up.
It was taking a big mob that had 18/100 mob and treating it as if it was
25/30.
Weaken does nothing when you debuff a 25/30 mob to 25/10 - it has the same hitroll.
This is going to be fixed and it will have two impacts.
- Big mobs will go back to being 18/100 rather than 25/30. This will have a
pretty significant impact on big mob hitrolls and damage even without using
debuffs. I’m not sure I like this in some areas - because I’m afraid runs
like BH exp will go back to being terribly boring again (and you’ll only need
1 or 2 healers and a bunch of botting kickers) so we may need to keep
an eye on that.
- Druids will go back to working precisely as they did before. This means
you will have to use shift eq to work from 18/100 to 25/100. As it currently
stands, treating an 18/100 mob as 25/30 gives a druid all hitroll/damroll without the need for a single shift item and this isn’t a good thing.
I must apologize to the druids for the couple weeks of turmoil on this. This
will get you back to where you should have been and allows for you to grow
your shift-able equipment to gain that damage you need - you just won’t get it for free like you have the last couple weeks.
These changes will go in on the next reboot.
Also note that the taunt idea is probably going to go in within the next
couple weeks as well - we’re working through the details on that right now.
–
Jake
Druids will go back to working precisely as they did before. This means you will have to use shift eq to work from 18/100 to 25/100. As it currently stands, treating an 18/100 mob as 25/30 gives a druid all hitroll/damroll without the need for a single shift item and this isn’t a good thing.[/quote:3e0mbll1]
The extra dam the past few weeks has been nice! Losing the hit is no biggie.
As for BH Exp, I ran in a group where Sa was tanking, and I swore he was taking way to much damage… so going back to only need a few active healo, sounds good…. I just might be allowed to shift in group again instead of being healo! :)
Adding an extra shift +str item to game would be cool (A light?). Only way to 25 str I see is with family crests on -0.7 necks and a vigor spell, if your using piasa. The leather belt is good interim belt, but it loads in Moria… enough said… I know I can’t possibly make 25 str until I get vigor, and land some tiger fur cloaks and family crests… seems a little too far off (when u consider u probably need a vault to forge crests at 10mill min). Not sure if this has been intended this way. I understand I have made it hard for myself with the 4x caster classo, that’s my bad, but putting forward to you none the less.
Oh, btw, I thought the immortals don’t listen much to whats posted on the board… and maybe they don’t heh! But it didn’t go unnoticed by myself that dark chasm has a new clasp and druids got some damage gloves. That seemed to me to address issue’s raised on the board. (more shift eq and more clasps) +1 to awesomeness for that. Thanks.
We read the board. I specifically read everything «loosely a moderator» duh.
We read the board. I specifically read everything «loosely a moderator» duh.[/quote:y16q7yeb]
Reading is one thing, listening and taking action is another! :D
cough shift bugs cough :wink:
Ok, Ok, let me give someone some credit… I haven’t quaffed a potion in inv in weeks!
I know ferret bug is still in… not sure about fly/waterbreath wearing off but I shall test when I get home… just not near the remora in crystal falls… :wink: But you get my point! You don’t? Oh well… :(
I don’t play any droooids, but thanks for looking into it and fixing the issues.
Now about us Warrior primes…
:twisted:
Now about us Warrior primes…
:twisted:[/quote:2l10po6l]
Yeah, It’s about time they got nerfed! :twisted:
NOOOOOoooooo!
We read the board. I specifically read
Ok, Ok, let me give someone some credit… I haven’t quaffed a potion in inv in weeks!
I know ferret bug is still in… not sure about fly/waterbreath wearing off but I shall test when I get home… just not near the remora in crystal falls… :wink: But you get my point! You don’t? Oh well… :([/quote:161efgio][/quote:161efgio]
Ferret bug? What, do you have fleas?
So I fixed your quaff bug - what, that wasn’t enough?
If you can figure out my email address, send me an email with a list of shift bugs that are still outstanding. I need detailed descriptions of the problem.
Also note the monk rescue lag has been fixed to match that of a thief. It won’t go in until tomorrow morning’s reboot though.
Ferret bug? What, do you have fleas?[/quote:2l9jn6lz]
When you hang around on a board that has weasels, you get fleas… what more can I say? :roll: Maybe a new prime warrior skill is in order? Itch? Sanitation… with Improved Sanitation at avatar levels.
You are a devout worshipper of Jake. :!:
EVEN WHEN I have a cleric supplicant on the way, and you get displeased with the quality of my sacrifice because I shifted! I still believe!!!
And… now it’s time to stop sucking up, because… I need to find your email address :wink:
[img:dukmdg2s]http://www.4guysfromviewpoint.com/uploadedimages/BlackMage.JPG[/img:dukmdg2s]
The reason I suggested taunt is this. In epic groups or undead eq groups I get pounded. With Minstrel singing gods of war to his undeads the target will engage me every few rounds. We had this happen multiple times last night. We are fighting everything is well, then im getting hit for 500. I sing, get rescued, lag from rescue then die while lagged. The target seems to engage me because I am doing the most damage to it? It doesn’t seem reasonable that if I’m in the back of the group and the tank is in front the mob continues to bulldoze through the whole group and attack me specifically. Rescue helps but without a mob engage message the tank has no idea, the person has to sing(once they realize), and the group doesn’t know who to heal because the attack lines are missing in gag fight. With taunt the warrior can taunt the mob and keep its attention so the group can do its work.
Also can we get someone to review concise. When I lead a big group all concise does is makes sure I don’t see someones eq when I look at them. If your running room to room it will spam with this person fols this person blah blah. If your running with concise you probably don’t care when the group follows the leader. People randomly entering the room should be seen but not every person as the group moves. Pretty plz and thank you.
welcome back Hayward :)
Also note the monk rescue lag has been fixed to match that of a thief. It won’t go in until tomorrow morning’s reboot though.[/quote:1t6lthoc]
Thanks Jake for fixing the rescue lag!!!
I have another question to ask … about the Monk’s skill Contemplation. I
just got this skill learned at 85% and it kinda bugs me. When I was a little
monk everyone told me one of the BEST skill a monk has is contemplation,
because it helps a monk regen +300hr while resting a “tick”. I’m bring it up
now, because last time I had it at 50% and thought maybe I need to learn
it at max before getting +300hp regen.
Well last night I learned the skill and I’m only regening about ~70hr. I asked
around and was informed alot of the Wa/Mo n Th/Mo has around +300 hr.
I know my monk is a nc/ca/ca/ca but shouldn’t a Prime Monk get the most
beneifit?
Below is my “current” hr:
contemplation - Lvl: 14, Learned 85%
You have (836/836+165) hit, (583/583+49) mana and (203/203+33) movement points
You have (836/836+188) hit, (560/583+49) mana and (203/203+33) movement points. (With Reju Up)
Your mnrg sucks too :evil:
Can you believe thats my regen in mr gear resting?
Not to “piss” off any other the Wa/Mo or Th/Mo, but maybe it should be hp
regen like how druids ma regen?
I know Nab is mostly a caster, but I’m sure he was also around +300hr.
sheesh.. Warrior prime here, old school, and in regen eq sleeping I get 80hpregen and 70manaregen.. and non-warrior prime can get up to 300freaking hpregen.. you wanna fix something, there’s a good place to start! lol
sheesh.. Warrior prime here, old school, and in regen eq sleeping I get 80hpregen and 70manaregen.. and non-warrior prime can get up to 300freaking hpregen.. you wanna fix something, there’s a good place to start! lol[/quote:1go293s8]
Weasel you can “fix” this by adding Monk in your class order :P
nc nc gets more hp regen from contemplation I am assuming to make up for lost mana and mr. You can’t really compare Nab or Dogs to Fable. Your eq is for weaks firstly secondly your still small. Dogs relies on contemplation as his main source of hp. I have no healing. I can make soul infusions but after around 10 I am out of mana. I wear hpr when I can.
I won’t go into detail about my gear but if you notice I wear lots of mv and hpr. AC is not everything in sloth.
sheesh.. Warrior prime here, old school, and in regen eq sleeping I get 80hpregen and 70manaregen.. and non-warrior prime can get up to 300freaking hpregen.. you wanna fix something, there’s a good place to start! lol[/quote:16nawsk3]
that’s gotta just be eq
my th/ma sleeping in a vault regens w/regen gear is around 106 hpr, outside is still around 90…. with 86mr vaulted and like 78 outside.. and that’s not even at 5x40
nc nc gets more hp regen from contemplation I am assuming to make up for lost mana and mr. You can’t really compare Nab or Dogs to Fable. Your eq is for weaks firstly secondly your still small. Dogs relies on contemplation as his main source of hp. I have no healing. I can make soul infusions but after around 10 I am out of mana. I wear hpr when I can.
I won’t go into detail about my gear but if you notice I wear lots of mv and hpr. AC is not everything in sloth.[/quote:2f5efohu]
That is true Mikey. Dogs is a nc/nc/ca/nc while Fable is nc/ca/ca/ca.
However the contemplation skill is a Monk ability. That is the point I’m trying
to make. I’m a Monk prime, but getting less hp regen then other non-prime.
Mo/Wa should have the highest hp regen, because of the class. But a still
a prime should have more hp regen then any other classes or so I think.
Going by your logic I should regen more mana cause I have 3xca, but I
don’t. I’m not getting the beneifits as a nc or a ca. Look at my regens :P
Also below is what I wear, its all ma regen. However adding some hp regen
isn’t going to push me to +300 or even +200.
You are using:
ed to it)
a!
aura!
(My EQ an’t all thatz Weak! :( )
(My EQ an’t all thatz Weak! :( )[/quote:22p8iil2]
no….. no, it really is
Thanks Adam :P
I can get prob get
+2mr on my fingers.
+wis on body
+wis on legs
+wis on feet
+mr hands
+mr arms (need lvl)
+wis shield
+mr body
Thats +5mr and +4wis more (makes me 17wis, which adds +1mr), a total
of +6mr more I think. Still kinda low for a Nc/ca/ca/ca who doesn’t even
regen much HP with contemplation.
lol will, rings of the sun wizard lol
one thing to remember when checking your monk’s hp regen is that
contemplation isn’t always in effect. type score a few times, on vaire
it changes from +97 to +287 randomly and often. Maybe you’ve just
been noticing while it’s not in effect. If not, then you just suck.
lol will, rings of the sun wizard lol[/quote:1zd5k0k5]
Dude I think these rings are awsome! -.2 +1ma regen +12mana
Ring of Flaming Serpents Forged None -.1 +2ma regen +13 Mana
Only a +1ma regen n +1mana difference. Plus doesn’t have to go thru all
the crap for the forge.
one thing to remember when checking your monk’s hp regen is that
contemplation isn’t always in effect. type score a few times, on vaire
it changes from +97 to +287 randomly and often. Maybe you’ve just
been noticing while it’s not in effect. If not, then you just suck.[/quote:gmdvk99r]
No no, that was copy pasted from the effect. And about the “suck” part…
Thats why I brought it up as a Monk Prime!!! You prove my point, Dork!
lol will, rings of the sun wizard lol[/quote:3sj2sc09]
Dude I think these rings are awsome! -.2 +1ma regen +12mana
Ring of Flaming Serpents Forged None -.1 +2ma regen +13 Mana
Only a +1ma regen n +1mana difference. Plus doesn’t have to go thru all
the crap for the forge.[/quote:3sj2sc09]
better yet, don’t wear any rings…only another +1mana regen difference…and you don’t have to go thru all the crap of cycling for eq!
better yet, don’t wear any rings…only another +1mana regen difference…and you don’t have to go thru all the crap of cycling for eq![/quote:3fdr8m3v]
Al if u can cycle Ring of the Sun Wizard I’ll give you all my chars and eq!
both rings together are a nice -.4 +2mr +24mana.
Sure I can ask for a 3x40 ring, but I’ve better picks for my char.
You are using:
<1016hp 387ma 247mv 58,439,499xp>
sc
Dogs of War [DoW] (level: 40)
Your levels: Mo: 40 Wa: 40 Ne: 40 Ma: 40 Av: 40
You are 27 years and 14 months old.
You are a citizen of Settlestone.
You are a devout worshipper of Akasha.
You are an example to us all.
You are quite familiar with most of this area.
You’ve seen 17.1% of the world.
You have (1016/1016+289) hit, (387/387+31) mana and (247/247+58) movement points.
Your armor class is -4.1.
You have +14 to hit and +27 on damage.
You have 0 gold coins.
You have one hundred and twenty-one drachma.
You have 58,439,499 unused experience points.
You have been playing for 35 days and 20 hours.
You are a member of The Dogs of War.
You are well-attuned to the enhancement stratum.
Str: 18 / 100, Int: 13, Wis: 15, Dex: 18, Con: 18
This is of course without bone armor. But anyways what were you saying about mana regen? You should easily get +10 or even +15 more mana regen than Dogs. If you take away his hp regen eq im down more towards 250hpr.
lol will, rings of the sun wizard lol[/quote:2altwznp]
Dude I think these rings are awsome! -.2 +1ma regen +12mana
Ring of Flaming Serpents Forged None -.1 +2ma regen +13 Mana
Only a +1ma regen n +1mana difference. Plus doesn’t have to go thru all
the crap for the forge.[/quote:2altwznp]
Those basalt rings are dead sexy too. Just think of all that mana that’ll take you 30 minutes to regen.
lol will, rings of the sun wizard lol[/quote:1khfj3b4]
Dude I think these rings are awsome! -.2 +1ma regen +12mana
Ring of Flaming Serpents Forged None -.1 +2ma regen +13 Mana
Only a +1ma regen n +1mana difference. Plus doesn’t have to go thru all
the crap for the forge.[/quote:1khfj3b4]
Those basalt rings are dead sexy too. Just think of all that mana that’ll take you 30 minutes to regen.[/quote:1khfj3b4]
I don’t like the fact they are also -2 dam with both of them on.
You are using:
<1016hp 387ma 247mv 58,439,499xp>
sc
Dogs of War [DoW] (level: 40)
Your levels: Mo: 40 Wa: 40 Ne: 40 Ma: 40 Av: 40
You are 27 years and 14 months old.
You are a citizen of Settlestone.
You are a devout worshipper of Akasha.
You are an example to us all.
You are quite familiar with most of this area.
You’ve seen 17.1% of the world.
You have (1016/1016+289) hit, (387/387+31) mana and (247/247+58) movement points.
Your armor class is -4.1.
You have +14 to hit and +27 on damage.
You have 0 gold coins.
You have one hundred and twenty-one drachma.
You have 58,439,499 unused experience points.
You have been playing for 35 days and 20 hours.
You are a member of The Dogs of War.
You are well-attuned to the enhancement stratum.
Str: 18 / 100, Int: 13, Wis: 15, Dex: 18, Con: 18
This is of course without bone armor. But anyways what were you saying about mana regen? You should easily get +10 or even +15 more mana regen than Dogs. If you take away his hp regen eq im down more towards 250hpr.[/quote:3kmj33y2]
Is that with or without Reju??? If it’s without (I’m guessing), your short the
+300 hp regen that most ppl have right now. I’m using the Reju spell and
not even hitting 200 hp regen. That does make a ~+100 hp regen difference.
Now I could be complete wrong, and “gain” more hp regen per lvl or at least
until 5x40. However I don’t think thats the case. Would an immort shed
some light on this matter?
ummm…are you using one set of eq, Will?
Dogs can’t cast Rejuv.
w/ rejuv in ac no hp regen eq 280-290 hpr for me. Mana regen > hpr if you can heal so don’t get excited.
I use two set, Dam Eq (-4 +10 +22) n Ma Regen Eq.
Forgot about Dogs no Cleric spells.
You guys keep making my point. As a Monk Prime, and three caster after
I’m not getting the beneifits of Contemplation or mana regen. My HP regen
is ~100 short, and my ma regen is average to other nc/ca.
I do wonder what Nab’s hp regen. Also Mikey, you don’t have +100 hp regen
eq on. So it doesn’t matter about ur HP Regen Eq. We do have a gap here.
Nab’s is higher than mine, we discussed it at one point.
you are getting the benefits of serious frostbolt margn mana spelldmg
restoration and all that jazz. each class order is meant to be different, so shut the hell up or reroll for what you really want and quit your whining.
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on the
part of the immortals.
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on the
part of the immortals.[/quote:3mrg2ocw]
How is it lack of planning if every Nc/Mo char that I know gets around +300
hp regen? Its not an emergency, and I never said it was. I just want an
explaination. Just like how Jake was able to fix the rescue lag on monks.
There was something wrong with it, and it was fixed cause I brought it up.
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on the
part of the immortals.[/quote:2wck9lff]
How is it lack of planning if every Nc/Mo char that I know gets around +300
hp regen? Its not an emergency, and I never said it was. I just want an
explaination. Just like how Jake was able to fix the rescue lag on monks.
There was something wrong with it, and it was fixed cause I brought it up.[/quote:2wck9lff]
So your saying you don’t have an increased mr over dogs by about 15-20 points? If so I would like to know how that is possible. Nc Nc get a bigger benefit from contemplation because our mr is about 50. I don’t know how else to explain it. I guess next you will say Dogs has more hp also.
damn now why in the FU CK should a monk WAR have more hp than a monk MAGE? huh!!?? someone answer me [i:jtie18m5]THAT[/i:jtie18m5]!
damn now why in the FU CK should a monk WAR have more hp than a monk MAGE? huh!!?? someone answer me [i:3ctlrp6q]THAT[/i:3ctlrp6q]![/quote:3ctlrp6q]
If you want a discussion based on common sense and reality this is not the place Aaron.
Damn Aa u must be high again.
Don’t think I ever said a Mo/Ma should have more hp then Mo/Wa. Nor did
I say a Mo/Wa should have less hp regen then a Mo/Ma. I did say that a
Monk PRIME should have more hp regen then Warrior Prime because its a
monk skill, or at least something very close to it. I currently have more ma
regen then Dogs is because I’m actually wearing ma regen eq while Dogs
didn’t wear any. So saying that I get 15-20 ma regen seems fair? Not really…
Do the math and I don’t have that much more mana regen. I have 49mr
with +11mr eq on - that its 38mr, Dogs has 31mr. Total difference??? 7mr
total hp difference? Well over 100hr.
Assuming a low-average tard heal of 200hp…
200/42=4.76
Each point of mr is effectively worth just under 5 points of hpr, if you heal yourself druing regen (not to mention the other uses for extra mana).
But when it comes down to it Will, any classo that combines a caster and noncaster in prime and second is going to be a hybrid char. It won’t be able to match a ca/ca for mana/mr, and it won’t be able to match a nc/nc for hp/hpr. But it will be a better caster or non-caster than a nc/nc or a ca/ca, respectively.
As always, you need to play to your char’s strengths.
Joey even with your calculation, its still not even close to an average char
with monk’s contemplation hp regen. I’m getting more mana then a nc/nc.
I’ll bring this up, since I know Aa still reads this … I wonder how much
hp regen and ma regen Cocaine has. Since the char is a Th/Ma/Cl/Mo n
Fable is a Mo/Ma/Cl/Ne. I’m going to bet that Cocaine has almost +300hp
regen, and about the SAME ma regen naked/eq as Fable does. He will have
about 60-80hp more then me, but I will have about 25-40 mana more then
him. How is a Monk Quad going to get more hp regen with contemplation
then a Monk PRIME? Thats all i have been saying…. So Aa post ur score.
<902hp 246ma 285mv><1262683644xp>
Cocaine is a helluva drug (level: 40)
Your levels: Th: 40 Ma: 40 Cl: 40 Mo: 40 Av: 40
You are 29 years and 5 months old.
You are a citizen of Settlestone.
You are a devout worshipper of Akasha.
You are an example to us all.
You have not explored this area at all.
You’ve seen 25% of the world.
You have (902/902+241) hit, (246/481+74) mana and (285/324+65) movement points.
Your armor class is -2.9.
You have +11 to hit and +14 on damage.
You have 1307484 gold coins.
You have two hundred and eighty-one drachma.
You have 1262683644 unused experience points.
You have been playing for 40 days and 18 hours.
You are a member of The Dogs of War.
You are well-attuned to the channelling stratum.
Str: 18 / 93, Int: 18, Wis: 18, Dex: 18, Con: 18
You are resting.
You are affected by the following spells:
Detect Invisible
Sense Life
Infravision
Iron Skin
Grace
Rejuvenation
Stamina
Corona
Greater Mobility
Strength
Insight
Quicken
Vitality
<902hp 246ma 285mv><1262683644xp>
The following bonuses affect you:
Your speed allows you to greatly reduce the impact of blows.
Your weapon damage is only slightly increased.
You can devestate your opponents with your backstab.
You have managed a slight improvement to your offensive spells.
Your innate healing ability is starting to stir.
You have learnt the basic circling technique.
Your kick is pretty harmless.
You are starting to lower the barrier between the living and the dead.
This is resting in the DoW vault on Lyme. You might want to get 40 tard,
get some decent equipment and play Fable for a few months before you
do anymore comparison/complaints. Just what I think.
Thx Aa for this info and showing that I’m correct. Fable will have a bit less
hp and more mana then you. But even at 5x40 with some “decent regen
eq” I still will not hit 200hp regen as a prime monk. So that was a good
guess on comparing both of us, and complaints seems fair now. Since I’m
sure u don’t have any hp regen on Cocaine.
Regarding playing and getting him to avatar would be nice, but the whole
wedding stuff doesn’t allow me to mud much.
I think you need to be complaining about your playtime then not your
character. The power of one is a direct result of the other.
Quit playing the when game and just post facts. Get to 5x40 cast rejuv and then rest and post what your hpr is until then I will not respond on this anymore, I know that mine went up as I leveled.
I know that mine went up as I leveled.[/quote:6h6df397]
Thx Todd, ur the only one that has replied with this info. I do know I didn’t
get any from lvl14 -lvl18. But I will see if the hp regen will go up as the lvls.
Tis all I shall say, carry on ppl :P
It might mention it on the avatar list thing, not sure. I thought it was
common knowledge.
Avatar List post when u will get the +4hp regen and +5ma regen.
I know that the +hit and +dam is off around lvl17, I don’t think I got a +hit.
Someone else posted that awhile ago, but it has never been updated since. (Or I could be wrong)