Clerics-My Opinion

I’m sorry if I come off as whiny, this is my opinion

I’ve heard that a Cleric prime is useless as an avatar, and not having any cleric in my classO, I can’t feel sympathy, but I do understand.

But, I’ve also heard that my classO is worthless because I don’t have cleric in it.. from multiple people, never heard non cleric classO being praised yet…

I’m sure a non-cleric character could survive in this game, or even surpass a classO with a cleric in it if given to the right person… but I’m not the right person, and I do not feel like making another character with a cleric in it so I can be like you. That’s why I’m here, to complain.

I feel clerics are just too good because-

They have all the powerful healing spells
Sanctuary, and later Aegis
Raise dead.. (I really want this for necromancers.. or druids..)
Supplication

I just feel that they hog too many powerful spells, granted without they wouldn’t be the shining class that they are… And no I’m not saying share all those spells because that would make cleric just plain useless..

But I never think, dang it I wish I was a bard, or a warrior, or a monk…

Flame me if you’d like, this is my opinion.. post yours. Thx for the time~~!

                                                ~~Skar

Well, I have to admit, I’m in the whole “Clerics are necessary in the Classo” group, so long as you intend on ever doing any solo play at all. If you group ALL the time, then cleric is unnecessary - pretty much everyone else will have cleric in their classo, so it’s fine if you don’t.

It allows you to play interesting classo’s that will have their own advantages, freeing up that spot usually used for cleric.

Furthermore, a Necro/Druid non-cleric classo isn’t particularly disadvantaged as you get similar protective/healing spells through those two classes, which goes a long way to make up for the loss of the clerical spells.

Lack of Supplication is meaningless - to be honest, Animate Dead/Summon, the Druid’s summoning spell both produce perfectly good - if not better - followers more reliably as you don’t have to hold alignment for them, and can have more than one.

I can’t remember what your classo is off hand (not online right now), but really, cleric’s not so necessary overall.

Now, assuming you don’t have Druid, Necromancer, OR cleric, you’re going to be pretty much incapable of solo play, but you can still be a valuable contributer in groups, in different ways depending on your classo.

Really, whether a Classo is good or not depends mostly on what you want to do. A 4xcaster, for example, makes a piss poor tank simply because they cannot protect, even though they can be rediculously powerful in close combat.

As to your other points….

Clerics SHOULD have all the powerful healing spells, just like how mages should have the best blasting spells, necromancers should have the best undead-related spells, ect, ect. It’s what clerics do.

Sanc/Aegis? Druids get Fluidity/Greater Fluidity, which perform a similar function (and stack with sanc-effects), Necromancers get Wall of Flesh which, while different in implementation, has the same overall effect as sanc. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve wished I had Wall instead of Sanc, for those long chop fights, or the situation where there are several mobs all in the same room.

Raise dead? Well, it would be handy if more people had it, but unnecessary. Overall, most people will take cleric in their classo, so there’ll always be lots of raisers about. Necros shouldn’t get it as it’s kinda antithetical to what they do, Druid’s shouldn’t because they have their own things they are good at. It’s important to have the various classes have their own advantages and disadvantages, to make the multi-class system work.

Supplication? Why? Again, Necro animating/summoning is BETTER. Sure, your undead followers can’t heal you, but you can always get them. Pretty much every cleric would happily trade Supplication for the necro variants. I know I personally would LOVE to be able to have multiple followers who I could summon regardless of my alignment. Try being Neutral as a cleric - no supp’s at all!

Bards are VERY handy to have in groups - Once you’ve been around longer, particulalry around high level bards - you’ll appreciate what they can do. I may not wish I had bard in my classo, but I certainly want them in my groups!

Warrior types, well, that’s another kettle of fish entirely.

Don’t get me started on that :)

Bards? Hehe… when the first bards were created, the most powerful group-oriented song was providing +1 dam to those who hear it :)

Undead followers can’t heal? hm… re? ;)

Well, scar, I’m in the same boat as you, having no CL nor DR levels, I think I suck at solo’s. Infuse soul for necros sucks, because you’d need to have lotsa huge corpses to get those master infusions. It was raised early before that necros actually lose more HP then the 100HP you get back from infusion.

Now with more nefting of the necro classes ie. less undead followers, I feel that I’m being cursed even more without CL and DR levels, bad classo from the beginning I’d say. So, I’ll just sit back and go slow on leveling at my own pace :)

I do realise that lots of necros who are going fast have CL and DR levels, so its all in the combo play.

Just ignore my whining … :)

[quote:1t0xu2th]I’ve heard that a Cleric prime is useless as an avatar…[/quote:1t0xu2th]

I can sympathize with lacking cleric in your classo. If you at least have druid, I’d recommend borrowing a piece of healbonus eq to see if you can get your heals to do more than the base 100 hp. There isn’t much low-level healbonus eq around, but with effort you might be able to get 35-45 healbonus, that bumps your “heal” spell almost to a “gheal”, and for the original mana cost.

Regarding the whole cleric.prime.useless.as.an.avatar comment, I think that’s entirely false. I tend to play my 40 tard cleric more than my 40 tard warrior, and have fun doing so.

Skar

Even as an Level 22 Avatar it is not cool or powerfull to be a Cleric Prime.

Yes clerics have power in spells like raise dead, restoration, supplication, etc.

However most of the time those spells are only powerful when it comes to helping other people not our own char.(you just cant raise yourself from the dead). In groups most of the time we have to pay attention or the tank dies. We cant sit back bot, chop, blast, eat chips and drink beer while playing. In quest groups the Healo generally gets middle of the road EQ picks regardless of levels. When pretty much the group would never be successfull if the clerics refused to heal.

Cleric primes cant solo like the other classos. Supplication is a huge help. But I generally have to ask for help to kill certain mobs that if i was another type of prime I could easily solo. Our AC is often in the + to maybe -3 at best when running in cleric gear. Overall I do not enjoy playing my cleric prime anymore. Quests suck to get rewards, and in all groups, you end up being a heal gimp. Tired of raising people who have killed themselves cause they were foolish and stupid. Have to stop what I’m working on and respond to the sometimes demanding gossips.

I like the mud, alot, but do not say that clerics are over powered, thats selfish bullcrap, cause the power that we have is not for our own primes, its for you guys to live.

Think about that the next time you beg for heals in a group and are dead hoping for a raise Skar, its that overpowerd cleric prime that your hoping saves your ass. If you want skills for your own classo ask for them, but dont stand on the soapbox and trash another class that has done more than its fair share of helping you out.

Mosaix

Also when quest eq is handed out, maybe have some things that are Cleric Prime only. Baring the high level pig that takes it to resell it, it should filter down to the healos when they pick.

thanx Mosaix for speaking for us cleric primes :P

i thank you behalf all the clerics in game

GO CLERICS!!! GO!!!

:twisted: KA KAW :twisted:

i agree whole heartedly with Mosaix, while having never played a cleric prime before, I can imagine the intense difficulty to solo anything.

I get spoiled as a high thief being able to run solo and get 150mil stab xp an hour with barely having to regen. most cleric primes will never see that xp without being in a huge group, working their ass off healing

I admire the attention and focus ability they have to see through all the spam to keep the G.Leader and Tanks alive. (and sometimes even the stabber who isnt paying attention) but there’s is the most difficult job, it wasnt until bards came along that any prime actually had no other purpose then to do things for someone else. Which is there purpose, you cannot go to a Cancer DR. and tell him to quit helping because he is too powerful, thats his damn job…

I feel lucky, I just poke stuff, and hope i get rescued and not die. And if i do, i can feel confident that there is a medic on duty, and my return to living will implemented when appropriate…

Sound like intense Cleric envy!

Support your Local Cleric Union!

The cleric cheering is kinda cool, but getting back to the point for a second…

Having cleric in classo is especially useful as a newbie, if for no other reason than self-preservation. Not dying has some serious advantages. It is entirely possible to play without it (Zukt comes to mind quickly) but it takes a good amount of experience to know what you’re giving up and how to compensate for it.

That’s not terribly different from any other class… like mage. If you don’t have heavy blasting available, how are you going to adjust? Warrior, if you don’t have 3 attacks and wide AC options, how can you adjust?

I don’t know about primes, though I love the death out of em, but I do know that self-preservation is always in style. If you value your life, you may want to be able to heal yourself. Playing a classo like wa/mo/th/ba is a great hack-and-slasher… but almost all the tactical elements (invisibility, fly, infravision, sanctuary, heal, firewind etc) are going to take you some work to achieve, if you can get them at all. If you have someone you regularly play with to back you up… go for it.

Cleric isn’t strictly necessary, but if you’re new to the game, I definately recommend it.

For the record:

[40t 40w 40c 40m 19a] Autolycos

[quote:3ue1ij5o]I get spoiled as a high thief being able to run solo and get 150mil stab xp an hour with barely having to regen. most cleric primes will never see that xp without being in a huge group, working their ass off healing

[/quote:3ue1ij5o]

[40c 40m 40w 40n 16a] Madmax

Classo’s are not the same of course, but if you think Cleric Primes are overpowered, I am LUCKY to get 20 mil/hour at best, working my ass off to get it solo. My best XP has always been in a 2 man group.

There have been many days I have played cycling solo, gain 100 mil only to lose concentration on winds and restorations back to back and die. Either corpse out or shock, and lose 80 mil xp. The whole day shot.

Clerics are suppose to have the ability to use heal on undead to damage them, this hasn’t ever worked since ive been playing.. Not to mention that the mana cost makes it unusable anyway.

I would have to say that I probabaly have some of the most powerful healing in the mud. With my healbonus eq I have worked vary hard to get, my resores are 290 to 300 hps, Mana cost 58. As comparison, 2 of my firewinds (+20 spelldam), do about 400, mana cost 50.

Lets just say that I argee with all the cleric primes that we are normally taken for granted. in groups we have to pay attention. We are the ones that save everyones butts.

Reguarding the quest equipment, Blaster was kind enough recently to hold a quest where there was a goodie bag of eqipment, included was a Skull of the Unholy Priest, Low +2 MR, +30 healbonus, MCL. I was honored to receive it. This was the first piece of quest eq that I had ever received from a quest. If it wernt fir the fact that I was 1.healo in that group, I probabaly would not have gotten it at all.

[quote:3ue1ij5o]I admire the attention and focus ability they have to see through all the spam to keep the G.Leader and Tanks alive. (and sometimes even the stabber who isnt paying attention) but there’s is the most difficult job, it wasnt until bards came along that any prime actually had no other purpose then to do things for someone else. Which is there purpose, you cannot go to a Cancer DR. and tell him to quit helping because he is too powerful, thats his damn job…

[/quote:3ue1ij5o]

Auto, again you are very right. Personally I set highligts on the tank, leader, etc and gag as uch as possible to not have all the spam. In Asryal’s opener for Crossroads, the spam was horrible.. We did have a few times where people died, mostly caused beacuse of the reporter lag, which in that cast, cannot be used to keep the tank alive. The group command is much more accurate.

Well enough on my soapbox. I do appreciate the fact that some players are appreciating us clerics and giving us some recognition.

Go Clerics…

Madmax

For the record:

[40t 40w 40c 40m 19a] Autolycos

[quote:2jkz6mzf]I get spoiled as a high thief being able to run solo and get 150mil stab xp an hour with barely having to regen. most cleric primes will never see that xp without being in a huge group, working their ass off healing

[/quote:2jkz6mzf]

[40c 40m 40w 40n 16a] Madmax

Clerics are suppose to have the ability to use heal on undead to damage them, this hasn’t ever worked since ive been playing.. Not to mention that the mana cost makes it unusable anyway.

Lets just say that I argee with all the cleric primes that we are normally taken for granted. in groups we have to pay attention. We are the ones that save everyones butts.

[quote:2jkz6mzf]I admire the attention and focus ability they have to see through all the spam to keep the G.Leader and Tanks alive. (and sometimes even the stabber who isnt paying attention) but there’s is the most difficult job, it wasnt until bards came along that any prime actually had no other purpose then to do things for someone else. Which is there purpose, you cannot go to a Cancer DR. and tell him to quit helping because he is too powerful, thats his damn job…

[/quote:2jkz6mzf]

Well enough on my soapbox. I do appreciate the fact that some players are appreciating us clerics and giving us some recognition.

Go Clerics…

Madmax

One more thought,

At 2x40 I cycled in Tel-makor + other island stuff alot, I could easily make 40-45 mil/hour with 4 liches under the old animate dead days. Even with summons, supplicant, etc. I can not even do the exact same run as I did at 2x40.

So the addition of supplicants, removing of animated dead, has hit me alot worse than others.

This may be from my lack of knowledge of other areas, but personally I dont like to die, so I run what I know until I have been thru the area with someone else. Yes a level 16 avatar does not like entering areas that he dosent know.

I don’t think cleric primes are overpowered, and I guess i see what you guys are saying, but I’ve never played 4 of these 8 classes, and I’ve only got alittle experience with 1.. so I’m just feeling right now that I wish I had a few of those spells… but thanks to those who posted tips, and sorry if I skimmed your post and didn’t get the whole point some of you :P there’s a lot of reading and I want to get back to playing.

Thanks for the responses and such!

I’m stunned at that 150m exp per hour solo! Wow!

its not that hard for me weasel, it just seems i stay dead alot, hence the need for more clerics! One of my personal fav is Cami, she is a kick ass cleric to have with you, with a 5man group of Me, Brady,Cami,Sita and Zukt, we viciously tore up the xp on Theris and Fiends :twisted:

i don’t hate clerics and no i didn’t say clerics are the best solo’ers in the world in fact i said i understand how a cleric prime could feel useless, and then you have the rest of you who think cleric prime rocks and what not..

some of you guys really need an attitude adjustment, a few days ago Saraen went a little overboard and so far you guys pushed him into an early retirement with your reaction. that’s just sad. grow up.

~~Skar

OH while readed all that spam forgot what i wanted to say :)

To little necro first: You always can restart char, even if like the name of your char always possibility to find imm who will delete it and can start char with same name but different orders.

Dont say anything about rolls ne or druid most easiest chars for rolling,cos

no need roll 18/xxx str, just roll high int and wiz rest stats averegly important if yes good if no than no

That levels you got on your char now possible buld in 1-2 days

Nod, agree with Weasel show me that monster who making 150m/hr solo yes its possible but need trick like hell and who told that our imms complite dorks and will not notice it? sooner or later some imm by mistake or with purpose will find it.

Maybe you talking about those mighty thiefs? Blah and you trust to that fairy tailes all thiefs never calculating how much they loosing , picking lucky hr and complitly forgeting that on next hr thay died 2s, was shoked 1s , was not saved 1s itd.

    Who set it that might of char should calculate on exp/ per hr

Why all calling silly splork expy mobs- soloing?

Mighty cleric Chainer was chanting that communizm on exp for all ,how to make it ? He got ne/dr i got test ne/dr he making now solo 6-8m per hr i was making 16m exp per hr at his levels

I cant force him explore areas,know tham,find “holes” in areas,find “holes” on mobs ,risk, calculate effective runs, equip char, create kill methods. Sloth long time ago went on solo trail, how many peoples soloing? Few, mostly who soloed befor whan was magestyle,liches, not screwed aligments and thay continuing to do that, rest sitting and dreaming:" ah it will be good if i will have that that that and than i will defently solo ,sucky lies if you dont have spirit solo huge hardhitting mobs you will never do that even if you got all that overpovering elements together.

To Max: Max i agree liches removing hits realy hard many peoples, i in that group also but so many unbalanced expy areas apears during that time, i not talking how magestyle removing hits . I yet dont understand why i was chesed by all imms whan was small, for charming “battle charms” while now people have same or stronger summoned or animated undeads on which dont need spend monthes of searching areas,selecting usable,fitable mobs, just pressing alias sad and you got drakolich

 Time will pass all will settle down 

       Small quests for you mighty soloers, sorry no drachmas

1 General-Shandlar (Far North) you dont have undeads,charms, no forms,

no potions,scrolls or other dirty charms with firewinds,healing etd,

go make him along in full mana run with only one daemon suplicate in your teath

2 How many tard clerics need to cycle irda forge components without any problems?( its all about how weak clerics)

3 You got 3 sluckers : 2 warriors and thief how build from that pathetic useless staff big mob killer group

Using your brains its first step to soloing ladis and gentelman

       Have a nice day ....

~~Skar[/quote:jvthdgnc]

Saraen was a punk from what I could tell. And some might say the same

thing about me. But if I quit it will be on my terms, not because of some

jack@$$!

I must be doubly screwed, I am a thief prime cleric secondary, and I can’t solo a thing worth killing. If it were possible to solo 150mil an hour nobody has clued me into how its done, I average around 30 mil an hour soloing and it seems really slow, I spend most of my time regening after mobs kick the crap out of my tiny little AC, cleric primes run around with better AC than I do. So hey at least thats one thing clerics can do :)

[/quote:3viz9nfu]

Maybe you’re not aware of the whole picture…. Saraen did a lot of bad stuff, not just going overboard once.

He’s repeatedly pkilled and plooted people, he’s stolen from groups, and generally been an ass.

He’s been given MANY chances to reform, but refused to do so.

I doubt any will be sad to see him go - he deserved everything he got.

i didn’t ever see anything like that.. we basicly leveled together and i was on easily more than him.. but i never saw anything like that..

i’d talked to him a lot of times, we’d been in a lot of groups together

he seemed maybe a little aggressive but i never saw him do anything like that..

more than him but maybe not every time he was on..

sorry then, i apologize. but i still never saw anything like that

~~Skar

i have to agree with Lead and Wintersdark.

Saraen had been a bad@$$ as far as i know. He took stuff from group and sold it another second, spammed silly stuff on gossip lotsa times, and those mentioned are just a fragment of what he did, so yeah, dont wanna be him :twisted:

P.S. GO CLERICS!!! GO!!! :lol:

:twisted: KA KAW :twisted:

skar let me give you one good example…

in an SS xp group, fighting Orcus (super grouchy) in DemonWeb, Saraen recalled the tank DURING the fight, thus killing me and a few others, then webbed the tank during battle againt Demogorgon. for that i recalled Saraen, damned,webbed,blinded,silenced her in town alone so she could think about what she did. then she thought she we be smart and lash out an attack thinking i was there, and got herself killed by the scribe..

ever since i first saw that char, she has stolen from chars my groups, looted mobs, lied about it, followed me without asking, and webbed me during battles..

IMHO she can be smited and burn in the festering bowels of hell for all eternity :twisted:

retirement is too good for her, she deserves a public execution!

Tooo Chainer … It’s LeaF not Lead :-P

tells you ‘What’s your nat stats?’

‘14 18 16 14 15’

tells you ‘Well… I’d create another char’

’lol, i’m not'

tells you ‘The first thing is to put Cl in classo’

tells you ‘‘cause it’s absalutely impossible to play without cleric levels…’

tells you ‘And the second thing - it’s good idea to roll stats with triangles, since they are easier to pop’

’lol i like my stats, best i’ve gotten so far

tells you ‘Your stats aren’t good’

tells you ‘I have 17 17 16 16 15’

tells you ‘I call it playable’

tells you ‘Well…’

tells you ‘You have 14 dex nat’

(more talk about stats)skip>

tells you ‘Now scan eq list please and tell me if you can see the way of getting -9 before 3x40 with your classo and

stats’

(skip for my privacy. lol)

‘i shouldn’t have to be a cleric to play this game successfully’

tells you ‘You won’t ever learn until you’ve learned how to play this game’

tells you ‘And you won’t ever learn this until you do something except running with exp groups ;)’

tells you ‘Hehe…. You HAVE to be a cleric to play this game successfully’

well now, maybe this is the reason i started the topic huh?

this is most of a conversation, i left out a part or two because i don’t feel like being laughed at. anymore than i already am.

and now i’ll wait for you guys to flame him, or me for posting this

~~Skar

Two people come to mind:

[40w 40o 40n 40d 8a] Zukt the Golem

[40n 40d 40t 40o 13a] Eneac 10110011 [Lyme]

Not very successful at this game are they? Poor guys, seems after a combined total of almost 18 years on this game someone would have told them it was impossible to play this game without cleric in classo.

It’s a little more difficult without cleric, but its not a requirement. If you couldn’t play this game without cleric, then the other 7 classes need some serious work. Hell, why not just be a single class mud, with a single class to choose from… Let’s all be clerics!

Well

all avatars have cleric and only 1 person above me doesn’t.

out of the 54 playing there are 5 people including myself who do not have cleric in their classo so akasha you’re about right

let’s all play cleric and then we can make a nice little movie and wear skirts and dance in unison to the cinderella theme song.

Skar,

Regarding your stats: You have 77 points, which looks good to me. There was a list of 40 rerolls in another thread and the highest points he got was 79, with an average of 65.75 points.

I found three tokens the other night, and being half-asleep and stupid used them all. My character started with 75 points, then got 71, 74, and the last roll, 52! He was difficult to play for a couple of days, but I just found a token today and got 68 points so things are better.

Regarding the need for a cleric in the classo: I hope it is possible to solo without one. Since Druids also have healing spells I didn’t add a cleric to my Druid/Mage/Warrior/Necromancer character. Guess I’ll find out when he leaves VK.

Sir Robin

P.S. I’ve only been on Sloth about a month, so my ideas may be way off.

You don’t “have to” have any class, really - the ones you have depend on how you want to play. With no cl in classo, you will be limited in what you can solo, but you have wall of flesh and stuff - that’s fine for the big choppish mobs, just realize your not going to be running around killing lots of small xp-type mobs (at least not very safely). It’s all in what you like to do. I personally wouldn’t make a char without cleric, but I also probably wouldn’t make one without mage - doesn’t mean either is too powerful though.

As for the stats thing… I’m not fanatic about stats, but generally, total of 80 is minimum that people will accept - again, depending on classo. A 3x or 4x caster, doesn’t need dex/str or even really con, since it’s not like your going to be soloing anything based on your ac or damage - you’ll be grouping, or hiding behind animates, or shifted (or all 3), so good stats are nowhere near as important as for say a warrior who needs good ac or a thief who needs maxed str.

Well

all avatars have cleric and only 1 person above me doesn’t.

out of the 54 playing there are 5 people including myself who do not have cleric in their classo so akasha you’re about right

let’s all play cleric and then we can make a nice little movie and wear skirts and dance in unison to the cinderella theme song.[/quote:3b92adkf]

I don’t know if you guys have noticed this, but cleric primes can’t dance worth crap. It gets worse as they get higher level. So they aren’t THAT great. (You might think I’m kidding, but try it yourself.)

Just to give you an idea what you’re working with…

If you consider that 18 dex is -4.0 AC and stone skin is -3.0 AC, that’s a huge bonus to any character. If you don’t have this -7.0 AC, finding ways to compensate gets interesting.

If you check the eq list, most stat equipment costs you something. Most +dex equipment will be at least -.2 AC off from the best AC for that type of gear… some held lights, a couple headgear and a tough forge shield I think are some exceptions.

If you have a dex of say… 13, you’ll have to get 5 dex items to get that 4 AC, at a cost of about -.2 each, or -1.0 total. This is why a lot of folks will roll for high dex. It’s easier to maximize AC with high dex than low.

Cleric has sanc, heals, stone skin and a lot of other self presevation stuffs. Stone skin is 11 cleric and 17 mage. If you don’t have either of those classes… bone armor isn’t too bad, but it can break. If you have mage, you lose sanc and healing, if you have necro, you have wall of flesh and infusions, which are fairly weak healing comparitively. Druids have some healing, AC through forms, fluidity, which is a fairly weak replacement for sanc, and no AC spells.

If you’re missing cleric, mage and necro, you can still get armor with bard, or buy lots and lots of red potions, but you’re permanently short -1.0 unless you can get someone to keep casting stone skin on you. Not to mention you’re not going to have iron skin at avatar, which will be another -1.0 someday.

If you’re soloing, you have to play tank to some extent (unless you’re splorking/winding) so having as much AC as possible is a pretty good plan. If you’re a group char, you can afford to run with positive AC… but that’s another topic.

Since newbies don’t usually have the advantage of passing down equipment from higher chars, getting AC through equipment can be slow and having spells/stats that you can make use of naturally is a great boon.

Moral: Having cleric helps you stay alive and is probably the easiest way for a newbie. Cleric itself isn’t an overly powerful class, and living without it is quite possible, but there is no other class that focuses on healing/protective magic. If you don’t have it, you may have classes that can compensate for it, or you may have a playstyle that doesn’t involve you getting hit, be it through group play, carrying a ton of recalls, or having a splorking/winding type character.

I don’t know if that makes things clearer or muddier… but I hope it helps.

now that is a helpful post…

that one and avatar’s suggestion to get eq for heal and make it as good as a gheal were the most important things in this forums, i wish all the other posts had been helpful

Those of you who consider anyone under 3x40 to be a complete newbie, you can stop reading now.

Those who look for important lessons in a post, you might also want to stop reading now.

A while ago, I created a character named Doom. Doom is a Warrior Monk Necro Druid, with levels of 30 20 18 12. He runs at -8 AC because of bone armor, and will someday become an incredible tank because of wall of flesh / wraithform / fluidity / dmg reduction / -10/11 ac. Until the nerfing of goodberries, he never had any problems keeping himself healed while soloing, and was able to run catacombs for xp all day without any regen. Admittedly, catacombs isn’t the best place for xp at his level, but constantly running has to count for something.

Doom is a decent character with pretty high potential, despite the lack of both cleric and mage classes. His soloing will be pathetic for pretty much all time because of not having supplication, good healing spells, and good blasting spells, although hopefully necro followers will soon be some recompense for that. Still, I don’t think anyone will complain if he’s the first person to show up for a group (at least once he reaches 2x40 and can get -10/11 ac)

Really, important classes are all about how you want to play. If you’re all about soloing fast xp, then you practically need Mage and Cleric, and probably Thief or Monk. A group character, all that really matters is that you can protect, although Clerics are generally more welcome than anything except 1.tanks. If you don’t care how fast you run, and find it amusing that you can read the forums or whatever else while you run, try out a classo like Doom’s.

For a newbie, you should really have cleric in your classo just like Ender said, mostly because of EQ. Doom only survives because I’ve got multiple other characters whose gear he plundered.

To submit something to the stat discussion,

Malison 40mage 40cleric 37monk 20bard 14 18 17 17 13 (sum=79)

has no problems running mansion or shadow keep, just like every other mage or monk from 2x40 to 4x40/5, but hasn’t levelled in 3 weeks because his gear is mostly patchwork

Doom 30warrior 20monk 18necro 12druid 18/32 7 16 18 18 (sum=77)

will be able to get -7 without spells by 2x40. levels at most once/day

Previous 30cleric 25warrior 17mage 6thief 18/32 17 18 16 15 (sum=84)

soloes similar to Doom, despite higher stat total by 7. Levelled something like twice/month, maybe three times

Ele 36warrior 23cleric 22mage 11thief 16 13 15 15 14 (sum=73)

soloes significantly worse than Doom, despite higher levels, levelled at most once/month

Klein 20thief 15warrior 8druid 3necro 18/18 13 11 18 15 (sum=75)

can’t solo anything, has terrible ac, levels at most once/month

Major 14thief 10necro 7mage 4monk 15 17 11 17 11 (sum=71)

soloes about half of valk, rarely regens because of level restores, levels at least once/hour (take into account levels, but still…)

Two people come to mind:

[40w 40o 40n 40d 8a] Zukt the Golem

[40n 40d 40t 40o 13a] Eneac 10110011 [Lyme]

Would love if someone could show me a char w/out druid/cleric. Sapient comes to mind, but how many others?

Sapient’s last logon was Tue Jun 14 22:30:15 2005

[40b 40d 40m 40w 13a] Sapient :)

Then again, I’m wrong.

So, as far as I know:

[40n 40m 40w 28b] Nomis found another precious crested spellbook

LOL…

Well

all avatars have cleric and only 1 person above me doesn’t.

out of the 54 playing there are 5 people including myself who do not have cleric in their classo so akasha you’re about right

let’s all play cleric and then we can make a nice little movie and wear skirts and dance in unison to the cinderella theme song.[/quote:1ec5gwwx]

heh well, there’s a good reason why MOST of the avatars have Cleric in their classo, Skar. Until (comparatively) recently, the only classes were warrior/mage/thief/cleric. As you had four classes in your classo, and there only were four… you kinda had to have each :) Thus, most avatars - chars who have been around a long time - use the “old school” classos :)

Don’t need cleric. I think it would be very difficult to play without cleric OR Druid - that’s just asking for a rough ride - but still certainly not impossible.

tells you ‘What’s your nat stats?’

‘14 18 16 14 15’

tells you ‘Well… I’d create another char’

’lol, i’m not’

tells you ‘The first thing is to put Cl in classo’

tells you ‘‘cause it’s absalutely impossible to play without cleric levels…’

tells you ‘And the second thing - it’s good idea to roll stats with triangles, since they are easier to pop’

’lol i like my stats, best i’ve gotten so far

tells you ‘Your stats aren’t good’

tells you ‘I have 17 17 16 16 15’

tells you ‘I call it playable’

tells you ‘Well…’

tells you ‘You have 14 dex nat’

(more talk about stats)skip>

tells you ‘Now scan eq list please and tell me if you can see the way of getting -9 before 3x40 with your classo and

stats’

(skip for my privacy. lol)

‘i shouldn’t have to be a cleric to play this game successfully’

tells you ‘You won’t ever learn until you’ve learned how to play this game’

tells you ‘And you won’t ever learn this until you do something except running with exp groups ;)’

tells you ‘Hehe…. You HAVE to be a cleric to play this game successfully’

well now, maybe this is the reason i started the topic huh?

this is most of a conversation, i left out a part or two because i don’t feel like being laughed at. anymore than i already am.

and now i’ll wait for you guys to flame him, or me for posting this

~~Skar[/quote:28yk60aa]

For skar, i can’t see how that is offensive or anything in the first place. If that could offend you, it’s strange why you want advice in the first place. Anyway, what wintersdark said it’s true. The 4 new classes have been added only pretty recent the past year. Hence most players who are avatars have cleric due to the old classo.

I would say that zukt (who has no cleric) is still able to solo somehow even without cleric levels. He does admit that sometimes it can be hard but i do see him solo some reasonable xps these days.

Cleric is definitely a good classo for a new player (i guess that’s the reason why that person advice you to have cleric), but once you get the hang of it, it’s not completely unplayable without a cleric. That’s what i feel.

A major part of this game is testing new styles and areas. Alot of people will complain its impossible to play without cleric, or that cleric primes suck. I tend to disagree with both of these statements. I know a few cleric primes that run in -10 and use pit fiend to solo much larger mobs than my thief mage.

As far as healing or aegis is concerned, necros get wall of flesh and then flesh golem at avatar which can move about 13 rooms to my estimation. Druids get greater fluidity. Unless you plan on running all over this is plenty. One thing I dont think people realize is this. Druids must shift to fight. While shifted you cannot cast any spells other than the ones dedicated to your form. When shited your natural stats mean 0. Dragon form has bleed which is a form of combat healing. Druid coupled with necro has just about everything you could ever want. Bone armor, wall of flesh, high mana regen, good shifted forms, fluidity, elemental resistance, spectral shield, followers etc etc etc. If you want to say its impossible to play without either cleric, druid, necro or bard, well this means your limited to mage, monk, warrior, and thief. Very few would take that classo, monk and thief are almost useless unless your thief prime. If your a new player spend some time learning what certain spells/skills do then make a char accordingly. Some classes complement each other much better than others.

I bet I can make any classo and have a viable char. Dont get me started on quad non caster, thats very hard but still functional. Bards get cry of the avatar which imho is just as powerful as firewind, watch out it has area effect. Monk and thief have backstab/deathgrip with focus and singing gods of war, look out. Avatar monks can rest with contemplation and regen 200+ hp per tick. This effectively reduces the need for healing to regen. I have often fled from mobs and slept a few minutes to regain mana/hp then go back in to fight. Dont get stuck in the same old, backstab firewind mentality. There are many ways to get around the old thief/mage style. With the new charms and the old brews anyone can have sanc potions/charms. Cycle for the shards and ask your friendly neighborhood Minstrel.

The bottom line is , you need to figure out what your good at. If you dont have cleric maybe you need to plan your runs a little better. If your only making 20m an hour as an avatar maybe you need to rethink your eq. Running around in -1 gear and full healbonus isnt very smart for soloing. While this is very powerful in groups, it will just get you killed when you solo. Armor class effects alot of things in this game, and not only tanks need it. I run at -8 which is often a point of humor. I compensate for this by running with the maximum damage and spelldamage i can find. Dead mobs deal no damage. If your a cleric dont try running thief xp. If your a thief dont kill nostab. Its all laid out. There are now nogrip mobs and noshift areas. This should help to balance out the xp tables for chars that dont have backstab/deathgrip/shifting.

I think Autolycos was smoking crack when he says he can solo 150m an hour (2.5m per minute gimme a break). He might 2 man that much with a powerful mage, but not solo. Medios can solo about 80m an hour if im lucky. With the old alignment and having a eudaemon I may have seen 150m a few times but those areas are so dangerous you will die and corpse eventually , lowering your xp.

PS I dont think non clerics can get healbonus, the cap would be 0 right?

PSS Flame on!

I agree with everything Medios said. I’ve got a 40 avatar cleric prime with -10 ac, and use pit fiend sometimes. It’s not a matter of how many xp’s per hour I get, I’ve never counted that on any of my characters…pit fiend is just fun to run with.

I’ve also got Rizzen who is now an teenie avatar cleric prime. He’s not used for solo, but has been very useful during groups. Blinds with Weakens, spectral, currently 700+ mana while wearing all the healbonus eq I could find. Eventually with the addition of an AC mode he may solo, but all the levels he’s gained have been grouping.

So my input, cleric prime is useful and I find it fun. If you want to run without cleric it’s possible and might be an interesting challenge. I intend to do it eventually. There are some challenges that are built into the game, collecting eq, popping spellbooks, levelling like mad. It’s fine that some of the players focus on those, but other players like to play with their own challenges. Highest exp/hour, largest mob killed solo, shadow chars, Frost’s version of a shadow char, playing without cleric. These are all options for players who want to give them a try, but of course experienced players are going to find them easier to attempt.

Most of us would suggest that newbies play with cleric in the classo, just the same as we’d suggest that newbies level all 4 of their classes rather then trying a shadow character as their first character.

I forgot to mention, Medios, we tested with a char with no cleric in classo and the runed onyx seemed to make his heals do 110. I don’t have an explanation.

I’ve heard theories that the healbonus max’s would be 90/70/50/30, though I haven’t been able to verify even one of those yet. Also, I had heard that some eq may contribute to healbonus/spellbonus but not apply to the limit. That might be only applied to quest eq, maybe not applied at all. Anyway, maybe the lowest healbonus limit (~30) is the max for all characters with or without cleric class. Maybe characters without cleric don’t have a limit at all, though the fact that most healbonus eq has cleric restrictions (or cleric-prime restrictions even) would make that hard to test.

I vote for more healbonus eq.

[quote:12jch2jp]I’ve heard theories that the healbonus max’s would be 90/70/50/30, though I haven’t been able to verify even one of those yet[/quote:12jch2jp]

I can verify cleric prime capps healbonus at 90. I have +100 healbonus eq on madmax and i can remove one runed oynx and the cap message remains, remove 15 and the cap message is no longer there.

Max

so whats the cap message? :evil: :?:

You have reached the peak of your potential for healing.

Argh, envy. It’s too bad that it requires quest eq to hit max healbonus. Please add more healbonus eq! Anyways, congrats Madmax!

Is it also the same for mage for +spell?

Changing subject wooooooooo

For speldamage 90/70/50/30 - its not rummors all being tested

For healbonus could be different havent tested 2nd cleric, and 3d cos equip personal or cleric prime only but for prime was 90 for quad was 30 (that was tested) plus Max verified that it was not changed from last time whan i tested.

Caps for both things was introduced at same time so doubtfull that imms created different dependents . And healbonus on 2nd and 3d cleric 70/50 (not tested , can be deadly wrong) . i got cleric 3d (tested with possible equip =shard(15) heal+2 bracelets(20)heal+repulcive eye (8?) heal and not riched cap). message was somwhere around

Curious, why all that caps not posted officialy at part where stats roll orders, is that such crazy secret? Nowdays think that will be important info same as stats ordering especialy whan you deciding create new char

Hum… Interesting … I forsee a new char, once I hit 40 with my other

newbie. Never made a Mage Prime til 40 …. but played 3x40 mages :)