Why was the essence of life (drachma eq) changed from mass raise dead, to just raise dead. It was one of the only cleric oriented drachma eq as it was, and you nerfed it and made it even more useless.
Orig stats were 15 healbonus +2syshock 5 charges mass raise dead. Stats are the same, but its just raise dead now.
Why are the cleric based robes the most expensive, 425dr, up from 250. How is it a crystalline silk robe -.5ac +25spelldamn 250dr, and a -.6ac robe 350dr cheaper? Really doesnt make sense.
Most days I bother to log my old tired cleric on, there are few cleric primes to be seen. Most groups if you immortals check up on this, have no cleric primes or maybe 1. Bh exp group a few days ago had 30 + members no of which was a cleric prime. 2 nights ago Crisi led desert lyme exp, of the 20 person group, 1 cleric prime (jayde) was in, and after she left they ran with no cleric primes the rest of the night.
If it is your plan to phase out a class, please let us know, and perhaps give us the opportunity to re-pick our prime so we can do anything really with our classo and prime abilities.
Mosaix
Why was the essence of life (drachma eq) changed from mass raise dead, to just raise dead. It was one of the only cleric oriented drachma eq as it was, and you nerfed it and made it even more useless.
Orig stats were 15 healbonus +2syshock 5 charges mass raise dead. Stats are the same, but its just raise dead now.[/quote:2z73mhyl]
This item has not changed.
Object ’essence life elite low’, Item type: STAFF
Item is: PERSONAL
Weight: 5, Value: 500000, Worn in: TAKE HOLD
Has 5 charges, with 5 charges left.
Level 40 spell of:
raise dead
Can affect you as:
Affects: SYSTEM_SHOCK by 2
Affects: HEAL_BONUS by 15
Only those who are at least master clerics may use this item.
As ever, it is a staff of raise dead. Activating it casts raise dead on every player and mob in the room other than the caster.
Staff item or otherwise when I have statted it before it has said 5 charges of mass raise dead. Now it says just raise dead. Id have to see the item in action before ever believing thats what it now actually does.
Does anyone have this item currently to be able to tell either way?
Are you sure? Because there is no ‘mass raise dead’ spell, and I don’t think there ever was. A staff of ‘raise dead’ will hit everybody in the room; that’s what staves do, generally.
i think the main problem here isn’t cleric prime. it’s that the staff is a complete waste of drachma even if it casts mass raise dead 5 times in a row for only one charge point. i need raise eq like other players need not to die. i need heal bonus about as much as a used stick of chewing gum. drachma eq should be repriced somewhat… like that +1 str clasp i was thinking about until other players reminded me that it was a pipe dream at 250 drachma. lower the prices or just sell all the lame crap at one hippee dealer so we know it’s a joke or something. as for that robe M well some of us bought it for 250 and some of us wish we did. me, i dropped the hammer on that one along time ago. no clerics in groups is all good by me, that way whenever i show up everyone is like…. wow brand is soooo cooool look at him heal the tank and then not heal the tank… then he raises the tank and chuckles… what a jerk… i also got no knocks on what Mosaix said, hell we both started out around the same time, when we both thought cleric prime was the place to be, and M’s earned the right to say whatever. but not me, i’ve earned nothing…. i have bought a few things though… :twisted:
Leah is a hippie.. I caught Krom buyin a bag of peyote off her.
KJ
Im crystal clear sure it used to query mass raise dead when you asked Faur. Ive “almost” bought it several times because of the allure of mass raise dead. Its a piece of newbie eq otherwise.
Also as of me typing this the eq list still shows the essence of life as mass raise dead 5 charges.
It wouldnt hurt to put some clericky eq in the drachma shops anyway, what cleric primes are left playing Im sure would appreciate it.
I had some ideas for cleric prime.
Make the mud more interesting and make the spell “raise dead” a Cleric Prime spell. I was a newbie tank in a group yesterday of 20 people and someone corpsed cause there was no-one to raise them. Seems its happening already. Raise dead should be special, not a right.
In that same line of thought, if one selects Cleric Prime and bothers to level it to 40 avatar you would think a Cleric of that magnitude would have some sort of difference from Cleric prime to say a Cleric quad.
Right now everyone heals about the same. It shouldnt be that with no Cleric Primes a Desert exp group can run without a hitch. That doesnt make any sense.
Maybe take restoration as well and make it a Cleric Prime spell, give some real distinction between a Prime and a Quads healing power.
Healbonus blah blah, its nice but a quad still gets 30 healbonus. Most Druid/Clerics regen faster and still get 70 healbonus if they choose to wear eq to support it.
Dark Mace while nice, has almost no use in groups, most leaders dont let me use it cause of the flee proc. Though I do like it for certian solo mobs.
Valk suppli cant be used in some groups like Desert because it drags you in at some point and you start tanking the mob, IF the tank is paying attention they rescue you. So most groups I dont bother with it.
Would it be so much trouble to give some useful attributes to the choice of Cleric Prime? I can count the regular Cleric Primes on one hand. Thats unbalanced.
Mosaix
raise dead as cleric prime spell? good luck finding anyone to tank…
Having been a cleric prime since sloth 2, and on several characters in sloth 3, I can say being a cleric sucks. Mages get more blasting, druids get more hp in shift, warriors get parry, thieves their stabs and monks their grips+dam reduction, necros get a juju.
Clerics get this dorkmace that makes mobs flee in groups that pisses people off. The weapon itself is really cool, does good damage, has 2 mana regen, hits ethereal mobs… but why is that a cleric prime weapon? I mean… shouldn’t a cleric 100% hp restore players they raise dead? Or perhaps they should get a heal group spell that heals the target and 20hp to all group members? Or perhaps a prime cleric’s sanc or aegis should protect the targetted player by an extra 5-10%? I’m not trying to get dark mace taken out, would piss off a few clerics (Jayde) who actually play clerics, but it just never made sense to me.
I think clerics rock but do they really compare? I’ve been playing stelios and I can tell you I’m a cleric at heart and it’s not the same. But it’s not like I couldn’t strap on some healbonus stuff and heal pretty decent at jayde’s level. Why be a cleric prime, honestly. When Stelios gets to av 40 and straps on 30 healbonus, don’t you think he’s going to be almost as good as jayde? And I agree, cleric drachma gear is really crappy. They should a piece of gear that when the cleric prime restores, the target person has a 10% chance of getting an extra 60 hp back (not heal, restoration… too many times I see avatars using heal instead of restoration because it saves on mana)
And speaking as a tank… RESTORATION CLERIC ONLY??? MY GOD, WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU THINKING??? And I gave up tanking groups before, you think I’d want to tank then? It would be the end of big groups as we know it.
-Toxis
Mage primes don’t blast any harder innately than mage quads. Same as clerics, the cap is increased. I agree that dark mace is cool, but a waste
because of the flee proc on it. The only thing I seer that as good for is
making some undead shopkeeper? flee out of his safe room.
Shival is just as gay compared to new classes as mosaix is, but
something like a cl/dr/ne/ba could be really really powerful with a
pit fiend and 2 animates and all that manaregen and songs..
I understand that you are looking for a retrofit and not to totally level
a newb to 40 tard again.
I wise man once told me it was my fault for cutting off my own hand then trying to play sloth with it. This turns out to be the truth.
I think the mud could use a nice challenge like Prime only on raise dead Weasel. While not you in particular when i say this, but some people might appreciate things a little more after its been yanked away from them. A Cleric Prime should be one who in the practice of cleric skills has mastered the art of raising the dead. I dont see how in theory a quad cleric could think to have the same learned power.
last player Sheng and don’t tell me cl-prime is lame or clerics need groups to gain exp.
Why do you think cleric is a group-oriented class? As for me I do think there are no group-oriented classes at all. There are just some classes that hard to play or people just don’t understand its advantages. Well, it’s easy to understand the power of thief - just stab/blast all you can (and so people think thief is a solo class). But it isn’t so easy to find how to play cleric prime (that’s why people think cleric is group class). I know there are certain areas that were designed special for clerics.
I agree cleric’s drachma eq (i.e. essence of life) must be redesigned but please make it gingerly. As for essence - you can for example make it endless and people will buy it. Though this way it should be limited somehow, for exaple it should be cleric-prime only and may use it only once a day.
Yup, I definitely appreciate raises, thanks Mosaix :)
as much as i agree that clerics suck as a prime class, to go as far as to say punish the mud coz nobody wants to play cleric prime is, kinda….how shall i put it…gay?
I play a mage (Poit) and almost never blast in groups. My take is in a group, it ALMOST does not matter what classo you are, it’s how you best operate your char. Tho it is pretty ironic that a “group” class like cleric gets a weapon for solo purposes.
Without nerfing cleric spells or makin them prime-only, I agree they should be given some nifty prime-only spells/skills that make them more attractive to select as a prime. Maybe not spells that would benefit a group, but spells/skills that would benefit the player.
just my 2 cents
Cleric as a classo pick for prime, has almost no distinction from Prime to Quad. The things that make up Cleric Prime currently are next to useless attributes. Drachma eq for a cleric doesnt exist. I have bought mostly mana and spelldamn eq. A cleric prime drachma weapon would kick ass by the way. Talk to some clerics and let them help you design it. Even something simple like +5 or +10 healbonus clasps would be a nice offering to see. Bezel set fire opal clasps are nice thiefy ring clasps, it can be done for another style of prime.
How a 30 man group can have no cleric primes shows clear imbalance. Obvisouly the selection of cleric prime, with druid second or whatever is still a useless prime pick. Again that a lyme group was 20 people with no cleric prime running desert without a hitch is off balance.
People pick warrior, necro, druid, thief, bard, monk mostly, sometimes mage, and almost never cleric for prime.
My thought on the raise dead was only to make the mud a challenge since some are so bored. Would also give some relevance back to Cleric Prime. And sorry but a spell with that magnitide would make sense to be attained by only a cleric prime. Raising the dead is an awesome spell.
Im not saying I NEED to see it done, im saying there needs to be something to level the field so people might actually pick the classo, and those that have picked it dont have to be the red-headed step children to sloth.
Mosaix
I totally agree they need some love. Prime love.
People pick warrior, necro, druid, thief, bard, monk mostly, sometimes mage, and almost never cleric for prime.[/quote:2mguwx1x]
Hm, I can’t remember every-day-playing-bard prime since AC were finely fixed. Can you? :twisted:
While we’re at it, the chess bishop needs some help; it just hasn’t measured up to queens. We need a new bishop skill, “move along ranks once every 10 moves”.
Im cleric 3rd when do I get my pitfiend?
Atwell and Alias, is that the best quipp you can come up with to a resonable argument?
At least I know who to let corpse next time.
I wont disagree about the Bard Prime thing. Alot of the Bard songs are obviously awesome, and group oriented. There could also be distinction between Prime and Quad.
Perhaps a Bard Prime thread is in order.
a mass heal or mass dark cloak would be nice additions to cleric.
heal bonus and raise bonus eq are worth zero to me and i wouldn’t claim to be the strongest cleric playing….unless you want me too.
wait.. i take that back.. i am strong! :twisted:
It might be a good idea to have a look at the difference between prime and quad for most the other classes before deciding that it’s prime skills which hold clerics back. A quad druid gets piasa, a quad mage can use bolt/wind, a quad thief can still backstab, a quad monk can deathgrip/prediction, etc.
I do believe that something needs to be done to make cleric prime a more attractive option, but I’m also under the impression that characters in Sloth aren’t supposed to be defined entirely by their prime class.
Also, any group can conceivably run with any single kind of prime char missing. Stabbers/blasters/healers/tanks etc. can all be of another prime than their duty implies, a group won’t run as well with people using their non-prime skills, but the difference can be surprisingly small if you’re only missing one kind of prime.
I think Ryn is correct :)
“characters in Sloth aren’t supposed to be defined entirely by their prime class.”
The only class that has a major “prime” ability is Warriors. Parry, -12
Thiefs = 1-4 can trip stab, apply posion
only thief prime should be able to trip stab
Cleric = 1-4 can heal, dmace n aeral servent
mass raise or mass heal with +heal items
Mage = 1-4 can blast, mirrors n reflect
no clue
Monk = 1-4 can grip n reduce dam, wraith touch
bigger grips (focus/ki doesn’t cut it) or less lag between grips …
Bard = 1-4 sing songs, better gods n dreams
effects more ppl???
Druid = 1-4 mr, thorns
2,3,4 class should have lower hp on shifts or time/mana
Neco = 1-4 , lagless n juju n deathpack
shrug
Damn, im gone for 4-5 days and everyone goes nuts in the meantime about my main chars prime classo, I dont really have a problem with the cleric prime classo. I haven’t baught essance of life or whatever that thing is, with rina I dont need the sysshock, and with max healbonus without it seems like a waste of drachma and time. Thankfully I baught that shnazy robe b4 they up’d the price on it, but other than that I will take any luv yall wanna gimme :wink:
PS I do like the fact that they put in eq like the sandy britches that are pretty much serving the same purpose as the cleric prime leggings can we get +2 mana regen britches now that our prime leggings are less useful? :shock:
[quote:1qpbf0tn]I haven’t baught essance of life [/quote:1qpbf0tn]
Didn’t pay much attention in spelling class either I guess.
:roll:
Does it matter? Its just an eq item :roll:
I didnt read this whole post, but I had originally changed the crystalline robe to 425 drachma. How it ended up back at 250 I am not sure, but it has been corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.
Nods the cleric prime auto, everyone can basically get now with the new eq. Maybe a new cleric prime auto would be a nice gesture.
I think it’s nice to have a person or two who will always be arguing for each favorite class. Clerics balance has been a problem in the past, but I don’t know if that’s still the case.
I think it’s a mistake to make any important ability a ‘prime-only’ skill. It stinks sometimes to have a lot of casters but no tank. It would be even worse to have a lot of people wanting to group, but we don’t want to run because we don’t have any clerics to raise dead, or any thieves to stab, or any mages to blast. I agree with Ryn, right now you can run groups without any prime characters, because we all have 3 other classes. I think that’s an important part of sloth.
The interesting thing about clerics is that anyone can be in the healo, since almost every character has cleric somewhere in the classo. You can find a lot of characters without warrior, thief, bard, druid, etc. but it’s rare to find a char without cleric. Clerics are certainly better healers (more healbonus, 5% lower cost on heal spells) but that’s a matter of efficiency. The only other class who compares well to a cleric prime is druid, because of the mana regen.
So here’s my idea. I think someone said a druid prime has +13 mana regen (outdoors), let’s give clerics a +7 mana regen (always). The druid regens faster outdoors but clerics would be second fastest, and the best indoors. Still, that only gives clerics a bonus in regards to efficiency, other characters can still heal & raise if there are no cleric primes.
(As an alternate idea, supplication rather sucks for cleric primes who group. The best supps you don’t want to use, since they steal exps if they land the killing blow. Eudaemon is nice for the hps, but clerics shouldn’t be getting hit. It would be nice to see some supps with innate regen bonuses for the caster, that don’t need to assist. Maybe a supp who provides some healbonus?)
There needs to be a valkyrie that doesn’t auto assist, but still heals group.
I like a lot of these ideas, but not the ones that limit other characters (don’t take away skills/spells from non prime clerics).
The problem doesn’t like in the cleric sucking, clerics are the best healers. I can take a cl dr and just totally kick ass as a healer. The problem is nobody wants to be a healer in groups, and nobody wants to solo as a healer. Personally I think the darkmace and ariel servant are cool, servant has saved me a lot in groups. The dark mace makes me not want to play a cleric in groups, because makes mobs flee, and I’m not gonna sit there removing and wielding my weapon over and over, to hell with that crap.
So what would I advise… I honestly believe cleric primes needs more supps, these sups would be good fighters and always assist. Don’t make them super powerful, but give them enough hp to last quite a few rounds and give them decent damage. Waiting to get to valk and pit fiend to get a supp that auto assists sucks, and it seems that was the coolest aspect of the supplication spell. I would take it into consideration.
Clerics are insane healers, I want to play a cleric druid mage necro, but I have Stelios who’s already had tons of work put into him and I just don’t see the point in starting a quad caster over… again (I am so sick of starting over).
-Toxis
Kjartan gossips– ‘Also, I don’t know if anyone noticed but the darkmace flee proc should be much reduced’
well that’s cool
Atwell and Alias, is that the best quipp you can come up with to a resonable argument?[/quote:7xr6fmf6]
Doubtful, but instead of working on a better one, I’ll translate it for you.
Timeless games derive their appeal from the experience of studying how they work and learning to play them well. You, on the other hand, propose to make this game conform to the way you have been trying to play it.
If you’re worried about cleric prime going extinct, worry about monk and druid primes. Clerics outnumber either of those fourfold.
Remember how this thread started? You didn’t know what “Item type: STAFF” implied. Start learning the game; you might enjoy it.
:shock:
the item used to say mass raise dead. Now it doesnt. That a staff can area is obvious i.e. red and white staff. Buy the item just saying raise dead i was asking for clarity about it, not a smart ass comment from a tank who’s never looked at the item. I never said in this thread I dont know what a staff is. You can imply whatever you want, at the end of the day the sun still sets.
If that is the case that the item is a staff and it just stating raise dead now, and it still mass raises the dead then cool, great, grand, wonderful.
There are some primes that also are not in healthy numbers. If you would like to argue in their defense please start a thread for them. I was speaking of Cleric Prime only thus the title of the thread Cleric Prime. Maybe you need to buy some INT points for your char to understand that.
[quote:24fowzwe]
People pick warrior, necro, druid, thief, bard, monk mostly, sometimes mage, and almost never cleric for prime.
[/quote:24fowzwe]
Amused. Yes, Amused. I played a necromonk back when it was worth playing, and I switched to cleric prime because it’s stronger.
Whoever is logged into slothmud at any given time is a function of how hungry their kids are, how drunk they are, how much homework they’ve got going, etc. It’s random. That’s why you can see a 10-man group with 7 warriors in it, or my personal favorite, 6 useless thieves and only one caster :)
Here’s the top of the who list yesterday.
[pri sec ter qua] Players
[ Hierarch ] Mithrandir .
[ Hierarch ] Yinao Dragonsworn Looking for: Brand, Twig
[ Hierarch ] Madmax teaching: Heal <GT>
[ Hierarch ] Shyla is a Steelers fan :)
[ Assassin ] Cocaine is your Anti-Hero [DoW]
[ Loremaster ] Taliesin …
[ Villainess ] Crisi <PIRATE> 1.75 bil left @ 10:27
[ Patriarch ] Brand Prince of Amber =sMAc=
[ Exorcist ] Sheng <PIRATE> [afk]
For those of you who don’t know, Hierarch, Patriarch, and Exorcist means Cleric. Of the (theoretically) most powerful 9 people on slothmud yesterday, 6 were clerics.
Let me know when you see 6 bards or monks up there and then we’ll talk.
You have shown a snapshot of one instant in time. Just as I have observed no-cleric primes in a lyme group at one time.
While shyla and madmax id consider regulars. I rarely see mithrandir play, and brand not as much as i used to see him. You do play almost all the time now in sheng.
You are also who I consider to be the smartest player on the mud, from having watched and group with your former chars. You push the limits of what a char and classo is able to do. Let alone some of the general stuff you have figured out. So you running a Cleric Prime is going to be impressive. You could run any other prime and be equally as impressive a player.
I have never made claim or talked people down to show that I am the smartest player on the mud. Now if you dont make a good argument I will gladly argue with you. Mostly I just like to enjoy the game for what it is, thats it.
I work my ass off all day, and most nights. I log on inbetween work to try to have some fun and play sloth as I have for 13 years. If the mud wants to balance itself to the current running standard, then its going to eventually have a small bored player base. Id love to mud like some of you guys do but I am not able to. Id rather end up winning a job with the Philadelphia Orchestra than mud 10 hours a day and master my characters make-believe abilites. Sorry.
Most of the point of the start of this thread was to make the cleric prime class choice more competitive from my point of view, which is that of a mostly part time player. It doesnt have to be outrageous solo qualities. Some useful group based additions to the class would go a long way. Just forget I mentioned wanting some attention for Cleric Prime. It obviously has not enough listeners, and thats the way it is.
Mosaix
Also the only real killers in that list are Mithrandir (who barely ever plays his cl prime) and Sheng.
Also the only real killers in that list are Mithrandir (who barely ever plays his cl prime) and Sheng.[/quote:1pddnsp4]
Hahahah
you’re not bad but you’re not on their level yet
It wasnt myself I was including but im sure that there are other “killer” cleric primes heh
choong and krok and doc as far as old school goes
I rarely play mithrandir not because he is weak or that cleric primes suck. i just don’t play him because i have other chars who’s style of play i prefer. mith is by far my favorite group character to play, but rarely does a group need a cleric prime more than they need a stabber or a tank who can also heal. yes cleric primes are hard to come by, because unless you really really like the top supplicants they are just as solid most anywhere else in the classo. unlike a couple other classes who main power comes from being the prime class (thief is an obvious one).
as far as restricting certain spells to cleric prime only, that’s a painful slippery slope. the same argument can then be made for every class to have it’s top tier stuff prime only. and then we quit being a multi-class mud. can a few tweaks be made here and there to help clerics out? i hope so. my biggest gripe w/ them is that they were once the “regen” class, now they have been beaten out by druids. the main reasoning for this was that druid forms take a lot of mana to maintain so they need more regen! well cleric spells take the most mana, where’s the regen love for them. outdoors fine, druids should beat clerics, but indoors druid regen still kicks the crap outta clerics. other than that clerics rock!
[quote:156wcmpf]I work my ass off all day, and most nights.[/quote:156wcmpf]
Wow..and what will this lead to?????
[quote:156wcmpf] Id rather end up winning a job with the Philadelphia Orchestra[/quote:156wcmpf]
Oh….. you “almost” had me on your side.
Question: How does one win a job with the Orchestra? Answer: Please don’t
answer that, the images are bad enough without any further detail.
:roll:
strider makes a good point.. zera would roll over in his grave. I think brad
brought up earlier something like this as well.
Philly orchestra?? Less posting, more practice, dude
[img:1k87dua5]http://img310.imageshack.us/img310/2584/paladins0gf.jpg[/img:1k87dua5]
seems applicable here ;)
Programmers at Blizzard play here? I thought they’d be at a stripclub on their time off.
Programmers at Blizzard play here? I thought they’d be at a stripclub on their time off.[/quote:2s04hvyk]
Yup - where do you think they get their ideas from? :twisted:
Nice Weasel… :)
I know I shouldn’t have anymore chars …
But does any1 have a Cleric Prime for Sell?
Look for Cl/Dr/Ne (Wa or Mo) or Cl/Wa/Ne/Ba with some good stats
Got a cl dr ba ma with 16 16 18 18 14 . . .
Since the mail system is broke … I have no other way of contacting u :(
Who else do you play? Who is this Char, and what is his lvl?
Last player tangent. Don’t play him much, virtually no eq I’m afraid. But I’ll sell him cheap. Email me at crysdan@bigpond.com
<799hp/791 596/576ma(+55) 64mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
You lost your concentration!
<799hp/791 564/576ma(+55) 64mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
cast ‘raise d’ kulum
Sneaky – ‘ke irap gitu?’
<798hp/791 564/576ma(+55) 65mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
You lost your concentration!
<798hp/791 534/576ma(+55) 66mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
cast ‘raise d’ kulu
cast ‘raise d’ kYou lost your concentration!
<798hp/791 505/576ma(+55) 67mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
cast ‘raise d’ kulum
cast ‘raise d’ kulYou lost your concentration!
<797hp/791 476/576ma(+55) 69mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
cast ‘raise d’ kulu
Ok.
Kulum begins to convulse wildy, then ceases abruptly.
Kulum’s body could not handle the shock.
Your blood freezes as you hear Kulum’s death cry.
Kulum stops following Eve.
<796hp/791 414/576ma(+55) 71mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
cast ‘raise d’ e
<795hp/791 417/576ma(+55) 73mv>(-4) [-0.1] [Irapuete]
cast ‘raise d’ eve
Ok.
Eve begins to convulse wildy, then ceases abruptly.
Eve’s body could not handle the shock.
Your blood freezes as you hear Eve’s death cry.
Over the week or so, I’ve used Ker to raise instead of Chi, Ker is at 11 wis and no shock bonuses.
Chi = 11/20 raises
Ker = 15/20 raises
Chi has some +11 shock gear and voila.
Maybe someone can look into this? Think raise dead is somewhat screwed.
After the third lost conc, I would have been noshouted for screaming obscenities on gossip. I’d like to commend you for your restraint.
My Monk has been shocked 2/3 within a week. Once with Patty and another
time with hum… Patty also i think!
Uh, I’d like to blame that on whatever is wrong with raise dead.
Certainly not that I forgot to cast insight. 17 wis is fine for raising!