Changes

Since we can’t reply on the changes board…

Brothers songs & backstab: adjustment made so that these songs will always benefit backstab hit chance, and benefit it at a rate slightly more than just what the regular hitroll addition would be. [/quote:17dyeu04]

Thanks much :)

Other changes look nice too.

[quote:v15eth6j]Spell and Heal Bonus:

Spell and Heal bonus caps are raised across the board, by a small amount
We found the native avatar bonuses for heal and spell bonus were higher than they were supposed to be, so this was adjusted back to what the avatar guide shows.

[/quote:v15eth6j]

Think I get it.. cap has been raised (nice), but the floor has been lowered for avatars, so the net effect is pretty much unchanged or slightly improved? (once you’ve reached the cap that is). ..otherwise you’ve actually been nerfed a bit it seems? Thought that avatar ‘bug’ was put in there intentionally to combat changes in mob saves ages ago. Too bad huh.

As a side note, ultimately old school tanks are redundant, both in groups and solo too.. without fluidity, spectral, wraith etc, they are redundant as tanks, and basically just shoved in as 2.tank or 3.tank to act as a buffer between tank and the rest of the group. As solo, it seems they just keep getting worse and worse.. not as much fun to play anymore, and the regen rates are absolutely ridiculous compared to newer class mixes, even some non-warrior primes get hp regen rates three times as high, and mana regen.. forget about it, it’s a joke.. And gawd forbid anyone dare speak out..

yeah yeah, go make a new char. lick my balls.

what about a 5x wa prime failing basic skills like rescue 3-5x in a row? and on top of that there is action lag for things like rescue, etc. WHY?????????? there is no bloody point to waiting to save someone else from dying, imho. and some of the ingame buffs we have always had like entrench, etc why the lag????? as i have said many times before - find some other way to balance the skill or spell without the hella overused lag. like weasel said - i am sick of hearing “go make a new char” just so i can tank again. i am not brad. i don’t want a whole harem of chars - i like the ones i already have. quit nerfing the oldskewlers to the point of disgust. quit making all the buffs like fluidity and wraithform and spec shield, etc necessary to tank. (no i did not forget there are coconuts on island natives, but those run out eventually and cannot stop group to refill on them because not buyable.) quit forgetting that those of your playerbase that have been here for the past 16 years give or take have oldskewl chars that are “useless” because of nerfs, adjusts, newclass skills/spells/buffs. and of course i am going to get slammed and flamed but i am used to it so flame on! :)

“hide and seek is it? or should we play search and DESTROY?” -preed –> titan a.e.

You guys seem to have forgotten that I have an old school tank also. I have not forgotten nor lost sight of how the tank class orders work.

That being said, I tank quite a bit anyhow, at -11 and all old school classes.

Things that do help as an old school tank:

greater fluidity sidhes – get opalescent shard, a scroll of recall, and your favorite bard and make em by the dozens.

wraithform sidhes – same shard, and a small treasure item

fluidity coconuts – if you ran island gold, you prolly have a lot of them.

abrasive (spectral shield) cocunuts – same as above.

same arguement as before - those eventually run out and don’t have time in marathon groups to get more. group cannot wait for restocks.

“i love this place at night. the stars. there’s no right or wrong in them…they’re just there.” -sgt. elias –> platoon

fluid sidhes -ok at least that spell lasts a while

wraithform sidhes -nfw I did that before and burt 10 in an hour of tanking..like I said before u need a version of wraith u can cast on others from a high level necro.

gratz on tanking btw

unfortunately old school warriors will never catch up to the new hybrids. right now warriors old and new have it good, with the recent additions and changes warriors are on par or ahead of many classes. old schools problem is the other classes we didn’t have access to back then. anything they do to make old school wa’s better will just make the new breed tougher also, it’ll never work out. with that in mind:

old school tanks can still tank just fine, we just aren’t quite as good as the new guys on the block. we still got plenty of hps and plenty of mana, just missin those one or two nifty spells.

Yes, you can gather up charms and potions and what not, but it’s a royal pain in the ass when all you want to do is get beat on.

for grouping purposes i like alias’s idea of being able to have others cause wraith/fluid on tanks. only problem here is even the new classo tanks wouldn’t cast it themselves, would just have the classic roll of dwraither! apparently though they like keeping these spells self only. maybe put a point flag on it, can only be cast on point in groups of x or larger. fun coding i’m sure.

i know personally i’ld enjoy breaking strider back out and having some of these nifty new powers. would be fun if we had a one time only, all old school classos could swap their quad class out for one of the new ones. wouldn’t have affected stat roll, or base mana/hp regen when character was made. just swap out the class, let em keep lvls, they’ve earned em, but then gotta read all the new skill/spell books and what not. that i’ld show up for!!

for those of you who break out the “Make a new character!” argument, i have, i’ve made several, but i still miss kickin butt w/ my first character. you get a bit attached to them!

Keep it simple, stupid.

Previous suggestion by someone has potential. The ever so popular 6th class being added could quell the peeps. Perhaps to take it even further, instead of a 6th class…. a top doh wishmaker MOB that for 20-25 XP tokens and a shitload of coins and maybe quest or 2 completed.. will allow u to buy any 1 skill/spell from another class. But Tap, that’s crazy!! People will be overpowered!! It will be the ruin of the game. Not so. The amount of time and

other requirements will allow those who are attached to their old school char’s to keep them ingame. Also, new char classo type’s can have the same option. Everybody is happy…well mostly everybody, I’m sure 1-2 will find a reason to b*tch but it is a viable solution. I only wish I had thought of it first.

:wink:

I would like the buy one spell option, I think it would be great.

I have a question. Why isnt wraithform a solo only spell? If the tank has wraithform wouldnt the mob just attack the next person in line. that sounds like a simple solution for the necro is the better tank problem

help “point”

that helps.

Wraithform only last so long and on group MOB’s not long enough to finish fight.. so no necros would want to tank… they’d die too quick and risk corpsing. Hogwash.
That’s pretty much the complaint now. The original tanks here are no longer the ’elite’. With newer style tanks being able to easily apply better skills/spells, they get bumped up to superstar status, if you will, while the original grunts get relegated to 2.tank etc etc. I can’t speak as one because I don’t have any tank originals BUT if I had invested that much time and patience in a character only to have it thrown in the backseat, well yeah, I’d be pissed too. Hell, just ask me to turn my head and cough why don’t yah?
Necro’s suck.

right now warriors old and new have it good, with the recent additions and changes warriors are on par or ahead of many classes.[/quote:kzy5xsyg]

If you’re referring to the recent frenzy/berserk changes, that was not for warrior primes - the only difference to warrior primes is that it made the stab a slight bit better, but barely noticeable imho, and it did not apply to warrior prime skills of broadside or flail (not that those ‘skills’ are used by many players anyway). The changes primarily were for other primes who also have warrior somewhere in their classo (in other words, it made the issue even worse, relatively speaking).

I have little doubt in future it will be used as an argument not to improve warrior primes though.

Ok well here goes, being able to cast on anyone would overpower necros :) I would wraith all my followers and be untouchable.

So how about now in the midst of this I suggest the introduction of a 9th classo.:)

Alchemist!! Hehe throwing potions is main thing and prime skill can throw any potion but non primes will be limited by potion weight(like10lb

Potion max). But anyway the class will get the ability to create potions via mana. Each level or few levels gain one eg: level 20 vial of

Steaming fire affect same affect and str as fireball spell, or level 28 bottle of white mist

Same affect as 1 heal, or level 40 vial of black gold same affect as wraihform;) so throw these potions at enemy/friend . Must be resting to brew so would work kinda different when group running they regening/tossing potions, when group regening they brew.

There are more then enough potions in game that can be brewed or popped to fill an alchemist prac unleaned list and I was writing a more complex desc but since this post was speaking of the weakness of old school tanks I figure we could offer them their very own support char class, and that class is Alchemist so that they can brew said warriors what ever spell they need. I have thought about stock piling and to prevent this just apply same rule to brewed potions as there are on soul infusions(outside a bag only last like 45-60 minutes) so use um or lose em.To end I know this will never happen buti just had to say it.

Ps on the tmc wouldnt you love to be a 10 class system;) hehe

Pss oh and could open up a whole new line up of +brew eq haha

Psss way too much work tho muck muck

Ooh ooh wait instead of using mana to brew let us use hp to brew( our blood and sweet ect) so we can have a truly workable none caster classo we have 4xcasters I want a 4xfighter

Muck muck

silly weasels, here’s your overpowered tip of the day. you’re a tank, you wanna solo, i’ll assume you have at least a -11 ac and can massacre with each of your attks. if you can do all this, you can make 100mil an hour very easily with almost 0% chance of dying. all it takes is trying a new area and a couple new mobs. you don’t even have to stab. just take out that valor sword and hack around. good times i tell ya!

again, you being a warrior prime is not holding you back at all. it’s the other classes that were available back then compared to what’s out there now. i agree with you and i hate my old tank not being as sweet to play. but there are still plenty of things we Can do. focus on those things and you’ll have a lot more fun.

[quote:19cuk1xs]all it takes is trying a new area and a couple new mobs. you don’t even have to stab[/quote:19cuk1xs]

Yeah 1-2 areas ingame that allow this….whats a warrior to do? not group and argue with other warrior about who was there first in the magical land of imagination?

[quote:19cuk1xs]i agree with you and i hate my old tank not being as sweet to play. [/quote:19cuk1xs]

I rest my case

:roll:

Just add a 6th class already, and lets get over all the whining. :idea:

6th class is only a temporarily fix, on down the line when everyone has suped up their char’s some.. it will start over.. we want skills/spells from ‘other’ class we didn’t chose..blah blah blah. A Quest MOB type that sells all skills/spells for alot of coins/exp tokens is better choice. Only don’t count on it. This, like most other topics, will soon die down and it will be same-o same-o. Possibly, one would be told if you don’t like it the way it is, go code your own MUD (hilarious when you think about it) but whatever, Someone pointed out that since I don’t even have a old-school classo tank that I shouldn’t argue their case. Your’e right of course, screw old-style tanks. Screw them in their big, sweaty guts.

Off this thread

Necros used to have eth pets but those got taken away, well the eth part.

I also assume its ac dependent because I get hit a lot more in -5 wraith than in -11 wraith.

Im not gonna spend 300 mana to wraith 3 pets so they last for a tick, you could make it castable on players only btw.

That’s pretty much the complaint now. The original tanks here are no longer the ’elite’. With newer style tanks being able to easily apply better skills/spells, they get bumped up to superstar status, if you will, while the original grunts get relegated to 2.tank etc etc. I can’t speak as one because I don’t have any tank originals BUT if I had invested that much time and patience in a character only to have it thrown in the backseat, well yeah, I’d be pissed too. Hell, just ask me to turn my head and cough why don’t yah?[/quote:1v6g0qg4]

holy hell. someone actually agrees with me. it will now snow in hell.

“i’m not the mechanic here, ironsides! i mostly just hurt people.” -johner –> alien: resurrection

I strongly disagree that old skool warriors are underpowered or underpriveleged in some way. If you’re bitter because no one begs you bot tank for them, make a new char. Wa/ma/cl/th is as good a classo as anyone can find. Stab, blast, parry, and heal are simple skills, but amazingly effective.

Out of interest… and a question to the older players…

Do people (in general) group more or less or the same amount as when they first made there old classo tanks? (compared to these days)

You know what I am getting at… is this classo? or just a sign of the times?

I take offense to your comment. A lot.

I DO NOT BOT. EVER.

I regularly get asked to tank, however I often do not accept as I know I will probably have to afk off and on, and I don’t believe in botting. It is not because I’m bitter - if anything was to make me ‘bitter’ it’s comments like you just made.

Maybe I [i:15h1q4u8]should[/i:15h1q4u8] bot, since that’s what you’re accusing me of anyway.

Did you read any of the previous comments, in particular the ones specifically mentioning about being told to make a new character?

If you want to make reasoned arguments, please do, but if you’re going to start throwing completely unfounded accusations, and unreasoned ‘arguments’, then gfy, your opinion is invalidated by it.

Seriously.

:evil:

Out of interest… and a question to the older players…

Do people (in general) group more or less or the same amount as when they first made there old classo tanks? (compared to these days)

You know what I am getting at… is this classo? or just a sign of the times?[/quote:3ob74prz]

I group less because there seems to be less groups running, or at least less people willing to lead. Also I don’t bot, so that often stops me from joining groups. I solo a lot, not because I like it so much - far from it in fact, I spend most of the time regenning because the regen rates on my classo suck.

I spend most of the time regenning because the regen rates on my classo suck.[/quote:2rilebx7]

and the rest of the time complaining becuz your attitude sux.

I spend most of the time regenning because the regen rates on my classo suck.[/quote:188110cj]

and the rest of the time complaining becuz your attitude sux.[/quote:188110cj]

right, how dare I say anything.. a$$hat.

read your comments again, and then tell me who has an attitude.

yup my attitude must really suck, that’s why I encourage people to vote and increase the playerbase, and praise the recent addition of autoreport and anything else that is helpful to the mud.. yup, real bad attitude.

:roll:

[img:o4r4gflb]http://www.leapfreak.com/images/lilweasel.jpg[/img:o4r4gflb]

Juggleblood wrote

[quote:1y4v39wo]make a new char[/quote:1y4v39wo]

Typical response

Ok, Out again!

Maybe making a new char is the right answer. It’s not such an outrageous suggestion. Clearly Weasel you enjoy tanking and you seem to miss the good old days when your classo had the thickest skin, just by virtue of being warrior prime.

I just don’t see anything inherently wrong with a wa/mo being a tougher tank than a wa/ma. I also don’t see any imbalance with wraithform. Taking necro in your tank classo means sacrificing blasting or stabbing. How is that not a fair trade?

This is such an old conversation. At the moment we should be sad because we just lost our weapon damage from our stab, which prolly amounts to a stab reduction of about 50-80 damage per stab? But c’est la vie. I still would rather play the Weasel/Agemo/Lob/Firebrand/Rub… classo than the new uber tank classo’s that lack stab or blast or both.

Maybe making a new char is the right answer. It’s At the moment we should be sad because we just lost our weapon damage from our stab, which prolly amounts to a stab reduction of about 50-80 damage per stab? But c’est la vie. [/quote:106gwehi]

And to think.. I only played the last 10+ years to make a super kickass thief doing quests and AQ’s only to have a chunk of it taken away because people cant leave shit alone.

But thats ok, because it was incorrect to begin with. Remind me to tell the mortgage company that i’m taking my previous payments back because the signatures were’nt in the right shade of blue ink all this time.

lets re-invent the wheel because it’s not round enough, at what point is piddling too much?

Obviously some of you knew there was a bug with weapon damage, and did not bother to report it. Thats a bit disapointing.

Im playing the game too, as is Jake, and several of the other imms. We are working on making improvements, but if something is a bug or it was wrong, and you were knowingly exploiting, be glad we are just fixing the bug.

Next reboot will have higher again spell/heal bonus caps, and we have settled for 25 spell/heal bonus at each of the avatar progressions of 10/20/30/35.

I am working on some skills that will help old school tanks also.

Firebrand – try using the second wind skill to help with lag

Weasel – I play a similar class order as you, and like Juggleblood, Im still trying to figure out what exactly you are complaining about. Get some regen gear, plan on regenning in a vault, not sure what to tell ya, im not having so many problems, but I can tell you it takes no time at all to get a char up to 3x40 and is a lot of fun. Or wait a bit and some new skills will be in.

Alias – I’m not even sure what you were tying to say, lost the message when you added your sarcastic grats on taking comment.

Keep it constructive and we are listening. Obviously we are not out to make a suckier mud or nerf people, and Im sorry people have that image as soon as any change is made.

I don’t think anyone realized that until you posted it actually. There were only a few people really experimenting around with the damage calculator. No one I know can even give me a straight answer on how stab damage is calculated, much less deduct that their weapon damage is multiplying merely by observing the xp from the stab.

Thanks Krom. I have a solid set of regen eq, and I thought I actually had reasonable regen rates until I heard what others are hitting.. not much else I can say really, although I will add that the very recent 3x40 eq changes helped my regen via a spectrolite clasp, so thanks for that.

I do make comments to compliment changes too, I’m not just all about ‘whining’, and usually I try to back up my comments with examples and keep it constructive, but sometimes it’s hard to keep that tone when all I get in return is - “shut up, stop whining, make another character, lose the attitude, blah blah blah I can’t hear you over the sound of how awesome I am” etc. All that does is antagonize and does not help anyone whatsoever.

The recent warrior improvements were not improvements for primes except frenzy with stab, but whatever gain there was, it has been lost with the weapon damage coding error (and no, I was not aware it was an error, which means my classo warrior is worse than I thought, lol).

And yeah I saw what your comment was Jugglebud, and glad you deleted it rather than further antagonizing players for speaking up.

I look forward to whatever improvements are coming. When Splork started making some changes a few months ago, I recall him saying there were more to come, but since then he kinda got busy elsewhere I guess, and whatever those ‘more’ were, they never materialized. If I may, I would like to recommend higher innate hp regen rates for warrior primes - it certainly would make sense considering that is what tanks are about.. (that and AC, which has been addressed I guess by limiting -12 to warrior prime only)

Im playing the game too, as is Jake, and several of the other imms.[/quote:14da206o]

Oh! Oh! :shock: Which one of you is the new player called Festeringhag I’ve seen around? :twisted:

exactly, I figured my stab was hitting hard because of all the quest and drachma eq i earned.

isnt that the purpose?

btw, great weaslie pic Jezer :) cheers!

Next reboot will have higher again spell/heal bonus caps, and we have settled for 25 spell/heal bonus at each of the avatar progressions of 10/20/30/35.[/quote:3opgpqsk]

: :D

[/quote:33fz2rzl]

Agreed. Zukt is a great tank that has a lot of serious power, but consider the cost. without ma, cl, or ba there’s no locate, gate, lloyds, passage or a host of other useful spells. And no supps (rabbit) means that zukt just isn’t going to have the permahealorder thing going on, which was fne until the charms went in and everybody was copying zukt’s trick that he spent so much in opportunities on.

I’ve seen some oldschool classos pull 6 bil xp a week and 30+ mil coins just doing stab/blast.

Next reboot will have higher again spell/heal bonus caps, and we have settled for 25 spell/heal bonus at each of the avatar progressions of 10/20/30/35.

[/quote:nmb51vkc]

So uh, if higher caps are coming in I hope that new non prime spelldam eq is as well, and healbonus too, considering non prime mages can wear only very limited eq without spending 650 drachma on the rings, and 750 drachma on the shield which I already spent 450 drachma on the robe or whatever, alot of the spelldam eq is restricted to mage prime only, more comming in, less restrictions on current, gunna force us to buy it at mayor with 10x2 bil tokens and 5 mil coins or whatever?

Healbonus there are alot of little nit picky items out there, heart of the sheolian, rings of life, gemstone shard (not so small), runed onyx (spelldam too), not so hard to cap i wouldnt think, not many people even try, its less as important as doing heavy damage with bolts winds etc, but would still be nice to see some of these items updated so that people can still reach caps, or see more stuff added.

I’m off the little thing called a soapbox

PS Keep whining Weasel! :wink: ,

and the warrior sits and waits…

Since we’re chatting about warrior skills. I wanted to point out an annoying feature about defy pain (one of the awesomest skills ever btw).

Lets say I’m protecting the stabber and she stabs the mob. Mob kicks my butt and my hit points drop to 100. I quickly type defy pain. But get the message ‘It’s hard to defy pain when you’re hardly feeling any!’. This is the msg u get if you don’t rescue the person before u defy. Of course if you rescued first, u’d be dead.

I’d like to see it such that defy pain was a little smarter in that it would realize you are at the top of the protect chain, even in situations where you haven’t rescued the stabber yet or situations where 1.tank is dead and suddenly you’re at the top of the protect chain, but not necessarily in the point position.

It’s an awesome skill, but still a little rough around the edges.

PS Can we have 3rd person messages for berserk and frenzy? I think it’d be fun.

frenzy: Weasel works himself into a frenzy.

berserk: Weasel froths at the mouth and boils over in rage.

[img:3juxa5uc]http://www.answersingenesis.org/images/weasel.JPG[/img:3juxa5uc]

Weasel froths at the mouth and boils over in rage.[/quote:3juxa5uc]

In the mud? or typing on the crier? :wink: :twisted:

Agreed, I’ve had occasions where all the tanks are down and it would be nice to be able to defy with my puny mage hp.

Could just make it not care whether the mob’s directly fighting you or not. It’s not like people further down the prot chain are going to be able unbalance anything by wasting their defy when not taking hits.

Mr Bowie would be proud, all kindsa Changes!

–there isnt much rescue lag for the tank,ive done this repeatedly with cizin when she whiffs/single stabs the dog in lyme for example. defying pain isnt hard to use,its plain simple.the tank just needs to be fast and alert. however it sux when the mob overpowers ur attempt to defy pain 2-3 times in a row

defying pain isnt hard to use,its plain simple.the tank just needs to be fast and alert.

[/quote:172uhfz8]

Golly gee wiz thanks Sa,Apparrently mai problem is that Im slow and unalerts,I will try 2 b better Thank yOu

Golly gee wiz thanks Sa,Apparrently mai problem is that Im slow and unalerts,I will try 2 b better Thank yOu[/quote:1bs94s0o]

[sarcasm] Geez Rub. Your spelling is terrible here. It actually makes you sound slow, even though you are trying to say that you aren’t. This leads to confusion for some of us. Are you or are you not slow? [/sarcasm]

I usually have an action to defy when bleeding.

Which often saves me when soloing but isn’t so good when I accidently blow my defy when I have it under control.