i just wanted to get in on the “this is not such a good idea” bandwagon.
about the whole lowering ac to -12…-13…
maybe the idea has some heart but…
it would outdate alot of players…even those with new classo type…
maybe just throw in “dual wield” and call it a day…
and i was thinking maybe a discussion could be had on this before everyone has a -12 tank. or worse maybe if only 3-4 ppl ever get at all. this is sloth after all… move slower… sloth… :idea: :twisted:
postscript: if i just imagined this whole thing…well then just ignore this!
[quote:4a6q0sq0]it would outdate alot of players…[/quote:4a6q0sq0]
Only the ones too lazy to upgrade their eq, or their stats THEN their eq. 12 is doable but 12 with crappy stats is not.
Im sorry but unless new eq comes out I don’t see how I will make -12.
I searched the list and best I can come up w/ is -11.8 (and this would be w/ a .4 tard light and forges Im not likely to do.)
Alias
i’m sorry to have to repeat this again.. but…
brand… wtf?
there are improvements being made constantly and eq’s prob to shortly follow. since there was no diff between -10 and higher.. there would be no reason to worry about it.. and -11 for most was a stretch.
we dont know what kind of eq’s or changes are still to come..
the only people that will be outdated / obsolete are those who give up or never try..
suck it up and run with the pack, or lay down, roll over and die out of the way..
progress keeps a rollin! :twisted:
AC is cool, especially if new eq comes around with warrior-only restricts.
Even without new eq, I figure an old-class tank can get to -12 AC without any forges. If you want to forge the feathered cincture, you can even get by with just the Cuirass and still have one 3x40 piece available.
i agree..
even though i hate to say this.. but maybe like the sword of valor.. there should ba a wa prime only eq/quest to get that super nice fancy type :) like maybe a -0.8 neck (non-shoulder) item or nifty -0.8 low item
-11 a stretch i don’t think most would agree with that.
buy crazy good eq that gets you to -12 or -13… really… for real?
who’s the first to pony up a +2 dam light for a .4 ac light?
i was saying if -12 is the new low ac, why not just keep it at -11 give a warrior dual wield and let them get -11 without a shield.
and wtf is a wtf about i’m not bashing all the new additions you know what i think of the new stuff it’s mostly great.
but this i think is rushed and not on par with the current additions to the game.
and then there is the option of mobs having -13 -14 ac.
bleh i need a drink.
again i’m just voting no… after the election no less, so whats it matter…
Mobs likely already had -11, -12, -13 AC. It was probably bugged in the same ways that -11 for characters was. Still, you can see some mobs have at least -11 AC by the miss messages.
Your slice bounces off a mountain lion’s thick hide.
At least now you can add +hit eq until those messages disappear for you, then you know you can hit them reliably.
-12 would be very hard right now, but there are a couple of people running around with .4 ac Tard lights.
[quote:3g0fwu7u]who’s the first to pony up a +2 dam light for a .4 ac light? [/quote:3g0fwu7u]
Strider.
next:
Toxis.
This will ultimately just serve as another way to tell the good tanks from the pros. If you want to create a tank, you’ll have to sacrifice quite a bit to get the AC you’ll need.
Just some hp really. And folks will have to not settle for shitty stats too.
This will ultimately just serve as another way to tell the good tanks from the pros.[/quote:1r0c631t]
pros ==> Spending >40 hrs/wk on sloth
I was never a pro. I thought this was a more laid back mud than that.
Look, ever since parry went in, a non Wa prime is not a “good” tank. (Bull, I say.) Sorry if I wax reminiscient when a Cl or Ma prime could get -10 and 900 hp and tank away for a large group. I remember quite a few groups tanked by an NC back in the day.
This is just another step down the path of guaranteeing that none but Wa prime will ever tank in a medium to xx-large group.
Is that a good thing? Is that progress?
I think not.
Qa
Honestly, does it really make since for a class other than a warrior to tank? I mean thats what the class is supposed to do best. Do you hear tanks whining that they can’t heal as well as a cleric prime? Its just what the class is built to do. Clerics heal, mages blast, warrriors tank, bards sing, druids do what ever. You get the idea.
I concur, and Guinexs play with corpses.
Even without new eq, I figure an old-class tank can get to -12 AC without any forges. [/quote:3cfh44i2]
Really? How do you figure that? :shock: ..seems a tough call even with currently available forges..
..and casting invisibility on yourself doesn’t count, heh. :P
Qa, I used to argue against the same thing. Prime-only abilities were the first sign of a change in sloth direction. Now, in addition to those prime-only abilities there are many spells / skills that work differently depending on where a class is within your classo.
[quote:3moqgx8y]Cost: Cost is 12 moves for monk primes, 16 for non-primes.[/quote:3moqgx8y]
I would still argue against this as a strategic direction for sloth, but noone seems concerned.
Check my math, maybe I figured something incorrectly.
Tard Light: -0.4
Strand of Silk: -0.5
Strand of Silk: -0.5
Any Shoulderguards: -0.8
Any Cloak: -0.7
Adamantine Cuirass: -2.7
Helm of the Dwarves: -1.3
Greaves of War: -1.7
Diabolan Military Boots: -0.5
Heavy Iron Gauntlets: -0.4
Polished Rock Sleeves: -0.8
Glinting Silver Shield: -1.1
Any Robe: -0.5
Tooled Girdle of Ogre Kings: -0.6
Rusty Iron Bracer: -0.5
Rusty Iron Bracer: -0.5
Weapon: 0.0
Battered Silver Medallion: -0.6
This should all total 14.1 ac. Add -4 for Dex and -4 for Iron = 22.1.
Well right off the bat the only real ac gains in this set are .4 ring/neck gain
and .4 light gain and you lose 2 con 2 dmg and 20 spelldmg to absorb 3 more hits out of 100. Not even close to being worth it. I still say Blackula will out-tank 90% of the warrior primes out there. Take heart Qa.
I would look at Holy EQ and drachma EQ for the ac gain instead of losing stats.
**EDIT– also there is the nonstab -.1ac weapon that loads on newbie mobs.
To be fair, helm of the dwarves is a forge, but the spiked helm or helm of the old ones are also -1.3. And the strands are -30 spelldamage.
Honestly, its not too bad a gig for Bit. His only blasting spell is dawnfire, so he doesn’t really care about spelldamage. When you’re in parry mode with a weapon, you’re already out 2 attacks and a ton of damage, so another -2 dam doesn’t really matter. And I think its fairly well known that my hps are nothing sexy compared to a lot of other tanks, so loosing another 80 to con… eh. So what? I’m almost never that low anyway.
In Bit’s case though, I’d be out about 30 hp regen in battle. Probably wouldn’t matter, depending on how many attacks the extra AC blocked.
Definately not worth it for solo though.
Ahh, the helm yeah. I’ve had it so long I forgot it was a forge. Still, with the Helm of the Old Ones that’s still -12 with no forges. Actually, -12.1 and you could use the .1 ac weapon, and if you pray for a holy item you could get another .1 ac. Use those to swap out the bracelets and 1 ring for .4 gear, and you’d be in pretty good shape.
I agree it’s probably not the best idea for solo runs. If you’re tanking for 4 or 5 people or more, -12 looks like it might be a very efficient setup. Having the armor to block 1 in 4 attacks that hit -10 is nothing to sneeze at. -10 generates a lot of misses, but -12 blocks better than 25% of those remaining hits.
Check my math, maybe I figured something incorrectly.[/quote:lemekzof]
Yup, thanks Avatar, I stand corrected, that would get me to -12ac, although it’s harsh on the con, which is not good when it comes to being raised, along with the loss in hp. The negative spelldam is not really an issue for pure tanking, so no biggie there, although not good for solo, but this is really about tanking not soloing.
“Qa wrote: This is just another step down the path of guaranteeing that none but Wa prime will ever tank in a medium to xx-large group.
Am I the only one that is laughing about this statement? :shock:
WA prime are the tanks! They should get the bonus/specials for eqs.
it’s there friggen JOB for god’s sake… they ARE the tanks.. (dee dee dee)
would you want necros or mages to have a stab advantage over prime thieves? DUH!
(inserts clerics whining about non-cleric primes stealing raise xp from them)
:twisted:
Were we talking about non prime warriors having an advantage?
no.. just a local fisherman out for a pleasure cruise at night….
through eel infested waters… :roll:
wow that eq list looks nice cept for the -2 dam and -2 con and that I cant wear the bracelets cause of restrictions and I cant use the ac weapon because of restrictions too so hmm kinda shoots that theory.
let me know what u find for me to wear and Ill work on it until then still stuck in the 11’s
Alias
If you can’t wear two of the .5 items, think of a way around them. The eq posted was already 12.1, so you only need .1 more to work with.
pray for holy eq. The shroud or the held low are both .1 over the eq listed, and you can drop both bracelets.
forge an eq. The greatshield is .1 over the eq listed, which would allow you to drop both bracelets.
elite eq. The walls of jericho are probably the best pure ac item. A shield .2 over the listed eeq gives you .3 ac to work with.
charles
The walls of jericho are probably the best pure ac item. [/quote:3dpy3t30]
walls of jericho is the best pure ac item… check
:twisted: :!:
Has anyone ever thought that possibly imms are working on new eq. A total restriction change for all the good stuff is not going to happen so give it up. However I would think that in the future someone with some foreskin, err I mean foresight might put in some eq that will cater to warrior primes. I notice a majority of the mud plays for the now, not for the future. I dont know if your short sighted, greedy, or just cant plan ahead but its a huge downfall. If you pick your class because you wanted to get a eudaemon at double 40 instead of trip40 or you wanted to wear titanium greaves at double 40 etc, your making a huge mistake. There are alot of players here that I never thought was make it to avatar 40 and they have. Eventually with some patience and time anyone can.
The available skills for each class are listed for everyone to see on the website. Minstrel did not get wraithform until quad 40 and it was not a walk in the park getting there. Ask one of these baby Minstrels how much fun they are having solo. However once I got Avatar all those troubles went away since I had all the available sub avatar skills for my classo.
Big Kudos to Elsie on the post, that paragraphs sums up a lot of problems players have on the game. If your first char is a class that does not work for you, dont be afraid to ask questions or try out something new. When you do start again don’t just emulate someone elses class. Check out the skills, ask some questions and make your “own” char. Don’t take this post the wrong way, its just the way I try to do things. I feel its decently successful regardless of what Tiff thinks. :)
Mike
PS How can Atwell be powerful without monk, without druid, omg without thief!!!!!!
Medios is correct, new eq will be coming very soon. Also, there are still plenty of new items we zoned a few months ago that have not been found. This goes for some quest eq that was zoned as one time pops also.
Splork