Empowering people is the best way to run a free society.
That’s a long discussion for which I don’t have time before the break here. But let me just explain to you in a nutshell, as best I can, in a broad sense the difference in the two. Let’s accept some givens, that all people – and I’m going to be very charitable here, because in some cases what I’m going to say is not applicable to some liberals, but just for the general discussion here, we all – want economic prosperity. We all want opportunity. We all want a chance at the American dream. We all want to be left alone. We don’t want to be hassled. We don’t want to have obstacles placed in our way by government in the pursuit of our dreams. The question and the argument that we have in this country is how best to provide it. That’s where the line of demarcation is broad, because on the left, liberals do not believe that a majority of people have the ability to realize the American dream on their own. Liberals have general contempt for the average American and average human being. Liberals have a condescending contempt for the abilities, the intelligence, the ambition, and desire of average human beings.
They must hold that view in order to be liberal, because liberalism is assuming people are helpless and hopeless and then growing government and all kinds of state power structures to “assist” people in their incompetence, and in the process you actually make your philosophy a self-fulfilling prediction. You disable the competitive nature; you disable the entrepreneurial spirit; you disable the American dream; and you force people to focus on government and whatever benefits they can get as a means of getting by. Conservatives have the ultimate faith in the individual. Conservatives believe that the individual, rugged individualism is what defines excellence and its pursuit is what made this country what it is. We believe that people can be better than they even know themselves or think themselves capable of being. We want to do everything we can to educate and inspire and motivate people along those lines. We want a great country! We want people who are individually able to raise families, to support them, to inspire them because they themselves are that way.
We want optimistic people of good cheer who have a hope that is realistic: that they can triumph over the obstacles that all of life throws at us. Liberals think those obstacles are insurmountable because they must. Now, that’s the basic difference. So, okay: how come some people are not conservative and some are? Well, you have to get to specific issues like abortion and gay marriage and this sort of thing, and that would be one way of doing it. But any Republican who is oriented toward growth of government, the growth of the state, and the idea that people need infinite amount of help because they’re incapable of doing things on their own, doesn’t qualify as a conservative to me – and there are plenty of those. There are liberal Republicans all over the place. It’s not hard to make these distinctions or to draw up these definitions.
By the same token, this is one of the big problems we face: the liberals, in their pursuit of this agenda, use government. They train their youth. They train their college students. They get them into “nonprofits.” They get them into Harvard and Yale for the express purpose of going into government, being a bureaucrat forever, growing government, and controlling it and taking over. Republican conservatives look at government as something that ought to be out of the way and invisible most of the time. So we don’t target our people to go there because when you go there you want to use it to enact your philosophy. Conservatism does not use government to enact what it believes. It uses individuals. It empowers individuals. Conservatism wants to limit government – and often going to government to limit it is not an attractive option for young people, but it is for the left. So it’s challenge.
translation: power to the people.
What is sad is that Republicans are increasing the government in the same manner as Democrats. The parties fight against each other and we lose in the long run. New laws restrict freedoms. Fear is a tool. Do not underestimate the power of fear. I wont teach my kids fear. I use every opportunity to teach Kaitlin new things. She killed a spider the other day and came and showed it to me. Shes 7. I know grown men that wont kill spiders.
Fear is the mind killer.
Mike
I KNEW IT!!!! :shock:
Kaitlin is the QUIZAT SATARAK!
all hail the Arakeen Priestess!!!
Spiders are beneficial. You should get her to kill Rush Limbaugh instead.
So what you endorse is a society of natural selection? I wouldn’t say that liberals have a contempt for the common man. I would say (and the notion isn’t a popular one) that society needs to be protected from itself. You can decide which idea is more evolved.
I never said to let people die. It is the responsibility of the community not the govt to educate. I endorse government staying the hell out of my life. I endorse people teaching kids to take responsibility for actions. I endorse teaching people to overcome fear and live life to the fullest.
I do not endorse allowing children to do whatever the hell they want. Kids do not need to be “sheltered”, thats how we end up with all these whiny pussy types. I do not endorse doing everything for someone. People need to learn to take care of themselves before they worry about me. This includes the govt. I cannot think of a govt program that is run correctly. Most of the tax money is funneled off into someones pockets, or into a salary for someone who does less work in a week than I have to do in one day. Not to mention taking 2 weeks sick leave and 2 weeks vacation. Private business does not work this way, competition makes for a thriving market. Sure some people cant cut it, but this is life.
Catch a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for a life time. Its a pretty straight forward idea. Politicians want you to think that you need them. This is nonsense, they need us. We pay the taxes that allow them to fly in first class and eat filet.
Lets use the example of Shyla teaching all these spells on sloth. Most of you newer players never had to learn these areas because Deb has done all the legwork. Now we have the worst case of lyme n00bs that I have ever seen. There is a reason that Atwell, Rynquald, Autolycos, etc do most of the cf and crs. Its because these are the only people who actually know the mud. Sure some of you know the elemental school or dragon mount but its no comparison. Maybe if you had actually had to kill something on your own and not join these big sponge xp groups and level to trip40 without ever reading a room descript.
If someone on sloth asks me about killing something I usually take them to the mob, show them whats up, and then go somewhere else and leave them to kill. Im not here to hold your hand, but I will help anyone who shows that they will at least try. This method of empowerment is what im talking about. Im on a mission to teach people to take care of themselves. I want to see more people “trying”.
Mike
I’ll bite my tongue on this one and let you off the hook.
Consider yourself lucky.
….
Okay, well next time you die, icq Auto, Rynq or Atwell. I’ll be fumbling in my drool bucket looking for my bus token :)
steal bus-token brady :twisted:
Laughs
I’m sorry but I gotta give a different opinion on the whole liberal vs. conservative speech.
I consider myself liberal and I do have contempt in my heart. Not towards the individual, but towards society. Like someone said…somewhere…sometime…..(loosely quoted) ‘A person is a smart, caring, thoughtful individual. People on the other hand are stupid, bigoted, and selfish.’ I don’t believe in sheltering a person, but I don’t believe in sheltering someones wallet either. I wish I could say that a vast majority of americans would step up and do what needed to be done of their own volition…..but I can’t. In fact I would have to be pretty friggin drunk to consider that possible. Hence the need for government, to herd the sheep in the right direction. I love the fact that america has things like free public education, social security (however jacked up it is), an army made up of individuals who chose to fight for their country. I’m willing to pay to keep those things, and keep paying.
Intermission………
I would like to take this moment to thank every one, especially the conservatives who have been forced against their will, who parted w/ their share of taxes to keep our country running…….I really do appreciate it. hugs
ACT II
[quote:3sy2o63k]this is one of the big problems we face: the liberals, in their pursuit of this agenda, use government. They train their youth.[/quote:3sy2o63k]
I am greatly distressed that the ‘Secret Liberal Organization of Training Heirs’ has been uncovered and I promise to stop stealing babies to raise them as liberals to be placed as moles in the conservative party:)
I’m off to bed and hope some of this makes sense….I’m tired enough I could have just been pounding my head on the keyboard for the last 10 min. And hope I got this on the right thread:) Nite all
P.S. Don’t take me too seriously, Politics are meant to be fun. Look at the clowns we have in office now.
Resouh
I’m here to get medieval on some mobs.
God does not like pork at all. Not to eat. Not to farm with. So why did pigs even come to be?
Oh yeah, those guards on auction block are wayyyy to low.. I think a price spike is in order.
waves
Especially when some twit will wait till the last 3-5 minutes before closing to close the deal while the rest of us interested are at work.
There, that should do it :twisted:
these conversations should be had in person
that’s what I think
Piss off wanker, your’e one of the worst offenders here
I do not agree with Limbaugh 100% but I need to ask why your liberal and why not have faith in mankind? Freedom has a cost.
Dad always said ‘You can’t just throw money at a problem." How true it is. I doubt any can disagree that our governments “waste” more money than we need to run a good system. I pay county property taxes so that the school system can run, and they still send home solicitations with the child to get us to buy something. If we do not buy then the child feels left out because she does not get the prize. I classify this as psychological warfare against me and my child. The child feels “bad” if we do not spend more money, its ridiculous. Now kids have computers and all types of stuff that we pay for, but yet the test scores are going down and our nation against other nations is falling.
For some reason I dont herd well. I appreciate public schools and social security but lets be honest they are both failed systems. Public schools are teaching children to be robots. There are not enough parents that care enough to help the children at home. Critical thinking is out. Abstract thinking has been replaced by a political correctness mindset. Social Security will be broke by the time I am old enough to draw. All my money has already been spent. Lets send more money to Uncle Sam so he can spend it on pork barrel projects or art displays with crosses covered in urine and feces. I do not mind paying my fair share of taxes, but when healthy individuals are allowed to be on section 8, food stamps, wic, living allowance, etc It upsets me. I pay a portion of my money so someone can be lazy and nonproductive, and their offspring can learn from them. Its turning into a welfare militia state. Don’t get me wrong some people deserve help but our current system is doing the opposite, it creates this mentality.
Its apparent to me theres a class war going on here. Its not republicans vs democrats, or even conservatives vs liberals. Its big money vs the rest of us. Theres a few people in power and they plan to keep it that way. If you havent noticed theres a one world govt forming, a militia state that will force its will upon the helpless millions. Here is what I see.
Fear - The media (which is controlled) constantly uses fear to “herd” the masses. Oh no whats the big problem now, that doesnt affect 99% of us. Out of all the so-called catastrophic armageddon type events in my life, only the recent rising gas prices has really affected me and not enough to worry about dying. I can name hundreds of ways they try to scare us into submission but I am sure you already know most of them.
Materialism - Capitalism has this nice side effect of coveting. George Carlin once said thats what keeps our economy running. Without the jealousy and contempt for your neighbors SUV you wouldnt run out to buy the Toyota Prius (which is more environmentally damaging than a Humvee, if you doubt me research how the batteries are made and the cost per mile to operate). Materialism causes division, and hence contempt.
Racial Tension - I have recently read about how the CIA helped form a violent adversary to the Black Panthers. This group was used to damage the Panthers and try to destroy them from bad publicity. People like Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson get paid to cause problems. Think of it this way, if everyone got along they wouldn’t have a job. The KKK and arian brotherhood and other groups do the same thing. They promote ignorance and hatred. From what I understand about history usually men that try to help are assassinated or mysteriously die. We could go into conspiracy theories, but I know that MLK Jr, Bruce Lee, JFK, were all killed for trying to bring people together. Hell there was even a sloppy attempt on Reagan, cuz at first he wasn’t controlled.
Enough rambling, I try to do what my signature says.
Mike
PS Wanker lol
nice, keep talking newb
Completely agree with Mike, respect.
And all this words refer to whole western civilization (and some others nations, and russians for sure), not just USA.
I’ll put an easier spin on it.
People grow up hating their parents and living under their rule. Once they get out of high school, most of them want to get out on their own and do their own thing… but aren’t really sure how. So they go to places like college and join the military where they’re techincally on their own, but people are still living their lives for them. It’s kinda like training wheels for life.
By the time they become adults, there’s still quite a few people that don’t really know how to live their own lives, so there is a constant feeling that someone else should do something about the things they don’t like about their life. In many ways, that’s where the class divide occurs. The more sucessful people have figured out how to live their life and are doing so, while the others are waiting for someone to make their life better.
So, you end up with the sucessful people changing things so they can be more sucessful, and the unsucessful people changing things so that they can stay unsucessful.
And that probably didn’t make any sense at all, but I like it anyway :P
I has a corm.
that was aimed at hades not mike obviously
Parents use the same tactics as govts in controlling children. Therein lies the problem. I try my best to educate Kaitlin to make the right choices. I have never used fear to try and direct her. I use examples and real life situations to give solid evidence for what I tell her. I encourage her to try new things. This includes things that I personally do not like. When most people raise kids they propagate fear into the child as a form of control. Thats one reason the children want to move out and “get away”. You can never control people, we were born free and at some point the machine will collapse. I personally do not want to be 20 years down the road and my child moved out because we do not get along. I get great satisfaction in her coming to me with knowledge and educating me. I realize I am not the smartest or even close. She brought home some apples one day and identified them for me. This is a red delicious because it has horns on the bottom, and this is a johnathan something because its round. That makes me happy.
Kaitlin is not even my child. Her dad is a pos and that is fine by me. He doesn’t have time for her and its a shame. I grew up in a broken home and my parents were too busy with their own lives to help direct or teach me about anything other than chores. I will not allow her to live like I did and end up a seriously educated adult with much potential and no direction. I jacked most of my life away and I guarantee I won’t allow it to happen to her. It’s a responsibility that I took upon myself. I learned a tremendous amount about people through shouldering this burden. I love Kaitlin and she makes me want to have a better world.
Mike
Whoa, so are we talking about psych or religion or economics? Yay!! That’s the fun! With politics you get all three and so much more.
My advice is to read more history and sociology. People have been struggling with these issues since the time of the hunter-gatherers, before agriculture. Rome had the same issues, rich people owned the resources and poor people got free food. Even then, conservatives complained about paying taxes and giving food to the people who didn’t work.
What it comes down to is that in most cases, the citizens make the rules. You have your vote, your voice, and the opportunity to run for public office. If you don’t like the way things are, you have those three weapons to fight for change.
So specifically:
“It is the responsibility of the community not the govt to educate. I endorse government staying the hell out of my life. I endorse people teaching kids to take responsibility for actions. I endorse teaching people to overcome fear and live life to the fullest.”
I agree with you on some points, and of course disagree on others. The disagreement for me starts with education. You say that the community should be responsible for education, not the government - I say it’s the same thing. Everyone in the community has a strong interest in the subjects taught and the methods used to teach their children. The people in that community express their will through votes and electing public officers. You have a distinct interest in how your child is educated, and you make the decisions about how she is treated. The people working on your school board are appointed or hired to enforce your decisions and your beliefs.
that was aimed at hades not mike obviously
Indeed, why would you say that to yourself? We are onto your little trick. Stick to one author and stop hiding behind several characters.
The government is supposed to be a representation of the people, and that is where things fall apart. Politicians, for the most part, are a representation of themselves, for themselves, although they would never admit it as it would cost them their position. IF governments worked the way they were idealized then things might be different, but it is inherently impossible.
The major problem - one of the major problems, for there are several - ONE of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of whom manages to get people to let them do it to them.
It is fact that those people who WANT to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. So who can possibly rule if no one who wants to do it can be allowed to?
To summarize: people are a problem.
Thanks for the enlightenment, Douglas Adams.
we would have no need of money, government or mudding.
[b:3mhpjr5y]Soylent Green is made out of people!!!
PEOPLE!!!![/color:3mhpjr5y][/b:3mhpjr5y][/size:3mhpjr5y]
I agree with you on some points, and of course disagree on others. The disagreement for me starts with education. You say that the community should be responsible for education, not the government - I say it’s the same thing. Everyone in the community has a strong interest in the subjects taught and the methods used to teach their children. The people in that community express their will through votes and electing public officers. You have a distinct interest in how your child is educated, and you make the decisions about how she is treated. The people working on your school board are appointed or hired to enforce your decisions and your beliefs.[/quote:2zwmrir1]
First I never complained about paying taxes. It is when I see people living on welfare better than I live on my 40k a year that I get upset about my tax money supporting their lifestyle.
Its been proven time and again that the government fails when it tries to use money to solve social issues. I don’t know what community you live in but most places I know the parents don’t give a shit. They might be involved in taking the kid to some sport, but theres no time for academics. Smart kids are ridiculed and picked on for their natural thirst for knowledge. People today are a lot more worried about Anna Nicole Smith than they are about real issues. We idolize models, sports figures, singers, actors, most of which cant change a light bulb. Then whenever Barbara Streisand wants to stand up and bash America everyone listens. How about listening to a history or chemistry teacher or a soldier of a real war.
I totally understand why most people don’t run for public office. The media is so biased where I am that even if you get solid evidence about corruption they won’t print it. If you try to bring it up then you got people following you, damaging your property, harassing you etc. I will not put myself into this position, someone will get hurt and I will be in jail for a long time. I dare not take the money from the hands of the crooks. I know about a few things happening in my county right now that has me furious. The newspaper, States Attorney, and several other politicians have done their best to perpetrate a lie in the media to distract from the real issue. The effect was so widespread that a man who has done more for our county than anyone in the last 30 years was voted out of office. It had nothing to do with our economy or what this guy done. It was all based on untrue accusations spread in the media daily. Politics has become all about money. Half of the voters are not smart enough to even know the positions.
American Heritage has this to say about govt.
Community - A group of people living in the same locality and under the same government. The locality in which such a group lives. A group of people having common interests.
Government - The act or process of governing, esp the the administration of public policy. The means a governing agent or agency uses authority. A governing body or organization. Political science.
I put emphasis on the words group of people, act or process, and authority. Community wants to work together for a common benefit while government wants to use authority to control the people. I totally agree about voting, speaking out and running for office. The problem is that most people think that Condolezza Rice is a Mexican side dish. I am looked down upon because I try to stay informed about politics. Theres a division created upon the people by political parties, race issues, sex issues, and on and on. My main point is that there is a machine that keeps us divided. It uses many tools to accomplish this. I have read more history in the last month than I did in the previous 5 years. My mission is bridge the division, I am educating myself and starting close to me. I mainly think that people need to escape fear and stop believing that they “need” govt to wipe their asses. Technology has made it way to easy to stagnate.
Mike
PS Read about Circadian Rhythm and then ask yourself why it makes sense to change the time 1 hour every 6 months. Its proven to keep you off track. I originally heard it was for farmers, that cracked me up since they work the hours they want.
The problem is that most people think that Condolezza Rice is a Mexican side dish. [/quote:101y2rl3]
LOL nice - I respect her, but that was too funny. Barbara Streisand on the other hand.. somebody gag her, please.
The media has soooo much influence over the way people think and what they perceive as the truth, and the mainstream media, generally speaking, is completely full of cr@p most of the time in the form of reporting bias and telling half truths. Take for example the demonstrations last weekend in DC - the media reported massive crowds of anti-war demonstrators and “a few hundred” anti-demonstrators. The DC parks department put the numbers of people at the Veteran’s wall (against the protesters) at 30,000 and the actual protesters at around 10,000.
How about in Portland where the anti-war thugs burned a US soldier in effigy, tore and burned the American flag, and then a man pulled down his pants in front of women and children and defecated on that flag. This disgusting act actually got cheers from some members of the anti-war crowd. Didn’t see that in the mainstream media did you? Hell no. But remember all the uproar in the media when some victorious American Olympians wore the US flag as a cape on the podium?
The mainstream media absolutely disgusts me, and they are significantly responsible for the ignorance of many citizens of the US. Good on you Mike for going after the facts rather than what is being fed to you.
The media has soooo much influence over the way people think and what they perceive as the truth, [/quote:2f028gwd]
The public is smarter than many give it credit for. It is person to person communication and the amount of month left at the end of your money that tells people where they are more than television.
And I would take most outrageous stories with several grains of salt, because if they had happened, there would have been pictures, and those pictures would have been posted someplace. And some partisan would have linked to them. This applies on both sides of the political spectrum.
burASLKJHSDJUFBWXJ K
Living in Baltimore, there is total trash that lives in better housing not having to pay hardly any money to get into it. Free cable, subsidized everything, food stamps, or those credit cards they hand to you to go buy food with.
Ive been in line with the welfare recipient with her baby, while she buys beer and doritios with it instead of baby food.
You can laugh all you want, it happens and your payin for it if your paying taxes.
Perhaps I should quit my job, have my wife squat out 8 kids, and I can live better than I am now.
Government is good for setting up schools and maintaining roadways and so forth.
I got the keys to my escalade and my baby momma link card in my pocketz yo.
[img:3h0xp0zo]http://www.mamacitaonline.com/images/2006/civics_head1.png[/img:3h0xp0zo]
And I would take most outrageous stories with several grains of salt, because if they had happened, there would have been pictures, and those pictures would have been posted someplace. And some partisan would have linked to them. This applies on both sides of the political spectrum.[/quote:bonxwpp3]
here ya go then:
[url:bonxwpp3]http://www.victoriataft.com/2007/03/somebody-got-it-on-tape-war-protesters.html[/url:bonxwpp3]
This is a disgrace. Regardless of your opinion of the war, the soldiers are not the ones to blame. The politicians tell the soldiers what to do. Soldiers follow orders. These people want to burn the soldiers? I bet these pussies don’t want anything to do with real soldiers. I am more against flag burners and anti-Americans than I am our soldiers that die for our freedom. If I seen something like this happen they better mob me with the beat down. I wont stand for it.
Mike
agree
Im Quite glad that that lil video Surfaced….I now Know that as a Soldier Currently “playing” in the desert I have at least 90 Seconds before some Silly lil effigy Burning shitbirds can ACTUALLY SET FIRE TO ME (EVEN WITH LIGHTER FLUID). Im fairly Certain I can Lay Waste to that crowd in far less time……
Its good to get Informative Intel
M
bunch of assholes. If they hate the US so much, WTF are they still living here for? I have a really simple solution for them that will remove all this effigy-burning anguish: LEAVE.
Talo, sorry you had to see that sort of crap, especially when you’re out there putting your neck on the line for these ungrateful motherfuckers. There’s a lot of people back here who definitely have your backs if push comes to shove - the recent DC anti-war protesters numbering under 10,000, and the corresponding anti-protesters numbering 30,000 strong make that clear, despite the asshole media not telling the truth about it, as usual.
When that nut Cindy Sheehan dishonors her son and claims she does what she does to honor the memory of him really pisses me off. Calling the US military the “death star” and claiming how “they take their death and destruction and they export it around the world”. Well done you dumb ho - you just described what islamic extremist terrorists do. Do we need another 911 to remind you?
Umm, Talo…are you still in Arizona? That’s a whole ’nother desert.
Im Quite glad that that lil video Surfaced….I now Know that as a Soldier Currently “playing” in the desert I have at least 90 Seconds before some Silly lil effigy Burning shitbirds can ACTUALLY SET FIRE TO ME (EVEN WITH LIGHTER FLUID). Im fairly Certain I can Lay Waste to that crowd in far less time……
Its good to get Informative Intel
M[/quote:1lm2vths]
It did take them quite a long time to start the fire, even after dowsing with lighter fluid. These retards would starve and die in the wild. Imagine watching these morons start a fire with a flint stone.
Mike
Umm, Talo…are you still in Arizona? That’s a whole ’nother desert.[/quote:jtpdklyu]
i bet it has a better pop rate.. maybe van should lead there?
actually auto ive been both places recently……
but thats not something im at liberty to discuss at length here
French Mousse is a dessert, not desert.
Mike